How important is belt notching?

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

On the topic of belt notching. It just came to me that on my visit to Canyata I forgot my pants in the van of the raters whose coat tails I was riding. Interesting story when my wife opened a package addressed to me and found a pair of my soiled slacks. You would have thought I could have gotten a courtesy dry clean.

Was I involved in that trip?  Were the pants soiled because the brakes (or something) went out on that van on the drive out there?

[Dan Herrmann]

John - no disrespect taken.  FC is certainly a very, very good golf course, but it's not going to make any magazine's Top 100 list   Stonewall once did, though.

[John Kavanaugh]

On the topic of belt notching. It just came to me that on my visit to Canyata I forgot my pants in the van of the raters whose coat tails I was riding. Interesting story when my wife opened a package addressed to me and found a pair of my soiled slacks. You would have thought I could have gotten a courtesy dry clean.

Was I involved in that trip?  Were the pants soiled because the brakes (or something) went out on that van on the drive out there?

Yes, it was me you and a guy with an airline connection. I don't recall how my pants became soiled but can assure you that it had nothing to do with manual labor. I am very grateful I was invited along that day. I have to say that getting the opportunity to play Canyatta was very important to me. I hate to think the position I may have eventually put myself in to see the course.

If belt notching teaches us anything it is that there are truly no free lunches.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

On the topic of belt notching. It just came to me that on my visit to Canyata I forgot my pants in the van of the raters whose coat tails I was riding. Interesting story when my wife opened a package addressed to me and found a pair of my soiled slacks. You would have thought I could have gotten a courtesy dry clean.

Was I involved in that trip?  Were the pants soiled because the brakes (or something) went out on that van on the drive out there?

Yes, it was me you and a guy with an airline connection. I don't recall how my pants became soiled but can assure you that it had nothing to do with manual labor. I am very grateful I was invited along that day. I have to say that getting the opportunity to play Canyatta was very important to me. I hate to think the position I may have eventually put myself in to see the course.

If belt notching teaches us anything it is that there are truly no free lunches.

Unfortunately that guy broke up with his airline connection shortly after that (she turned out to be Alex Forrest from Fatal Attraction)
 and now he has to drive that van all the way down to SC when he comes to visit.  Even in this case you are correct "There are truly no free lunches!!!"

[Rory Connaughton]

The motivations of those that seek out the greats is spread across a pretty broad spectrum.  What I find amusing and a little disappointing is, when speaking to people that are obviously trophy hunting, how many cannot articulate what was good or great about a course.
A lot of us are fortunate to have had the opportunity to play the great courses of the game and I wouldn't want to give up any of those rounds but its not like I have uncovered anything or can make observations that haven't been made by thousands before. I think if you really want to put a notch in your belt, do the heavy lifting as John suggests. Seek out courses that that get little or no attention and, if there is architectural merit, get the word out. In this part of the world some heavy traditional heavy hitters get most of the attention but (with thanks to guys like Joe Bausch) expose a White Manor, LuLu or even Lebanon CC to a broader audience and you have just made the conversation a hell of a lot more interesting.

[Jason Walker]

I'm lucky to have played many of the top courses of the world but I'd hardly call it belt-notching.  Fortunate to have friends at many of the great clubs, and more fortunate to have never had to ask for a round.

The only thing in regard to numbers and lists related to golf I keep track of is number of rounds I get in at my little old Tavistock CC in Haddonfield, New Jersey.   I'm well ahead of pace this year over last so I'm a happy guy!

And I just read what Rory posted--what he said too.

[John Nixon]

Quite a few of the courses I have left to see, truly and dearly appeal to me.  Real learning opportunities. 

What are you hoping to learn?

[Bart Bradley]

Quite a few of the courses I have left to see, truly and dearly appeal to me.  Real learning opportunities. 

What are you hoping to learn?

John:

I always seem to learn something when I see a great course.  Just recently, I went to Crystal Downs and I learned how Mackenzie could route a hole OVER a big feature, instead of around it, and make a great and interesting strategic hole (#5).  I then went over and saw how Mike Devries took this same idea and applied it in a new way to a different canvas at Kingsley (#4 and #6).  I have learned about bunkering, use of slopes, use of angles, use of terrain ....all sorts of things.  I hear for example that one can learn a lot about the use of fairway contours by seeing Sommerset Hills (I haven't seen it yet), so I hope to go there and learn.  I find it fascinating to learn what architectural choices make golf more fun and strategic and which ones don't.   

The answer to this question could honestly fill a book...or in fact, hundreds of them.   Just look at my golf architecture library.

John, what are you hoping to learn by reading this website?

Bart

[John Nixon]

Thanks Bart. Your reply tells me you're not just notching a belt.

[John Kavanaugh]

This is like saying that you learn how to play baseball by watching Derek Jeter.

[Mac Plumart]

"How important is belt notching?"

Depends on your goal. 

If it is to play the Top 100, well then belt notching is the only important thing.

If is is to learn about architecture, you certainly need some benchmarks (which the consensus consider great) to begin your compare and contrast and education.

If it is to enjoy playing golf, it isn't important at all.

I could ramble on and on...but in the end you have to ask what is important to you.

[Mike Hendren]

Just ran through the Golfweek lists:

Top 100 Modern:  23
Second 100 Modern:  9
Top 100 Classic:  17
Second 100 Classic:  10

While I'm content, I would be satisfied by the following in America:
Top 100 Moderns:  Harbor Town, Friars Head, Boston Golf Club, Bayonne, Kapalua
Second 100 Moderns:  Greenville CC (Chanticleer), Pine Tree, Prairie Club (2012), Dismal River (2012), Chehessee Creek (2012)
Second 100 Classic:  Engineers
Top 100 Classic:  Okay, here's where the problem lies:  I came up with 22 courses where I feel I'd miss something great if I didn't play them.  Among them are the more easily accessed Pinehurst #2, Prairie Dunes and Yale.   Architects whose work I'd like to see start with The Captain.  

That said, I'm not dying to play anywhere.   As for overseas, I'll have to give it some thought after starting with Cruden Bay and Cullen!

And Barney, I came to play Quail Crossing - not to get me some Kavanaugh, not that there's anything wrong with that.  Still sorry about the demise of the Magic Spoon, however.

Bogey

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks Bart. Your reply tells me you're not just notching a belt.

Bart is certainly not a belt notcher.  He is a diehard architecture nut.  From experience, it is really cool to spend time with him, for many reasons but one of them is, because his passion comes through regarding golf and golf courses and his experiences always add so much to the conversations.

[Joe_Tucholski]

To me, the concept of belt notching is gross.  It symbolizes something in our society that just drives me nuts - the need for "trophies" for everything.  Trophy course list, trophy car, trophy wife, trophy 2nd home, etc.   

Besides, how do these guys get access? 

Dan sorry to bring up your quote but I read your quote and thought to myself: I keep track of the top 100 US public courses I've played (and probably will keep the top 100 if the opportunities arise) and keep a Facebook album of the photos, I consider my wife quite the trophy and I just bought a vacation home (location based primarily on a golf course that is on the top 100 lists).  Then I thought to myself I don't think any of those facts are gross, maybe others do?

I think John Kavanaugh said it best when he said "Everyone who has a list of the courses they have played is a belt notcher. There is nothing wrong with that."
I'll go even further and say everyone has a list of courses they have played...it just may not be a comprehensive list.  

Further I figure most people use a list of some kind to determine where they will play their rounds away from home and not played at a course due to convenience.  It may be a list generated by Golf Digest, Sean Arble, GCA.com, Confidential Guide, golflink.com, your neighbor or any of the other numerous lists (published or not).  I know I rarely show up in a location planning to play golf and drive until I see a course to play.

To me I guess there are people who are anti-belt notcher because they associate a negative connotation with the term.  I had to chuckle when Tom Doak said he wouldn't complete the last one or two courses he was missing so he wouldn't join the "club."

Many people have provided good reasons to notch their belt with courses (learn, experience new things, see new things, travel, keep their interest high, spend time with friends, generate memorable experiences...).

Are there really people whose sole motive in playing the top 100 courses is to complete a list and brag to everyone they accomplished such a feat?  If there are I've never met them...or maybe I'm too dumb/niave to relize their intentions.  I know I enjoy the blogs or posts on various websites of those who write about their experiences playing golf.

[Paul Jones]

For many years I had a job where I had to travel almost every week, mostly in the US but sometimes overseas.  The only thing that kept me sane is playing golf courses in each location.  With that said, I kept a list of all the courses that I have played using Bing Maps.  Now my kids want to travel to the few states I have not been to and have not played golf in (wife is not as excited as we are :-)).  My wife and kids think it is cool that I have been fortunate enough to visit so many different places. However, Alaska, Hawaii and Maine are 3 states she has no interest in visiting - mostly because she does not like being in an airplane for more than 2-3 hours.

I did look at the Top Courses in the World, but there are some places I never want to travel to.  So like most others on the board, I want to play the Top 25 in the World - I look at the list and it has all the places I wanted to visit: US, Ireland, N. Ireland, Scotland, England and Australia.  I think some people are very goal oriented and it is neat to set and try to accomplish a goal/bucket list.

[JC Jones]

For many years I had a job where I had to travel almost every week, mostly in the US but sometimes overseas.  The only thing that kept me sane is playing golf courses in each location.  With that said, I kept a list of all the courses that I have played using Bing Maps.  Now my kids want to travel to the few states I have not been to and have not played golf in (wife is not as excited as we are :-)).  My wife and kids think it is cool that I have been fortunate enough to visit so many different places. However, Alaska, Hawaii and Maine are 3 states she has no interest in visiting - mostly because she does not like being in an airplane for more than 2-3 hours.

I did look at the Top Courses in the World, but there are some places I never want to travel to.  So like most others on the board, I want to play the Top 25 in the World - I look at the list and it has all the places I wanted to visit: US, Ireland, N. Ireland, Scotland, England and Australia.  I think some people are very goal oriented and it is neat to set and try to accomplish a goal/bucket list.

Well said, Paul.  I think that some people trophy hunt, some people belt notch, some people like to set goals, some people are architecture nuts, etc. etc. 

Often times this board sets the tone of "if you don't agree with me you are wrong and not true to the game of golf."  I think that is unfortunate as we are all passionate about this great game and fortunately we are all passionate in different ways.  Playing golf in each state would be a very cool memory to have.

[Dan King]

Joe_Tucholski writes:
I'll go even further and say everyone has a list of courses they have played...it just may not be a comprehensive list.  

I have no such list.

Cheers,
Dan King

Number 10 is Rush Limbaugh's book and No. 8 is a book on menopause, so I'm somewhere between the right wing and the change of life.
 --Peter Jacobsen (on his book "Buried Lies" being No. 9 on the Washington Post best seller list)

[Andy Troeger]

Its a bit amusing to me how so many of you manage to turn going out and playing golf courses into a bad thing! What a horror that somebody might want to go play good golf courses, and choose a list as part of their research!? While going out and playing off a "list" is treason, I bet if someone made a list of "GCA favorites" then at least a few folks would make a concerted effort to go see them!  

There's a bit of sarcasm in that above paragraph, but I do admittedly get some amusement out of these threads. It just goes to show that there are lots of methods to golf travel, and to each their own.

Personally, I always try to hit other courses when I'm in an area. When I went to Pinehurst, my first priority was #2, followed by Dormie Club because I wanted to see it based on photos/commentary. We admittedly detoured one day to Wilmington to go see top 100 Eagle Point (worthwhile), but also played both courses at Forest Creek, Pine Needles, Tobacco Road, and Tot Hill Farm. The variety between two classic Ross designs to three Fazio's to two Strantz's made for a wonderful golfing adventure. I do think it would be silly to go to a golfing mecca such as Pinehurst only to hit #2 and run out of town, but I don't think there are too many belt notchers that are quite that extreme. Perhaps I'm just naive.

[Jud_T]

like it or not, let's not pretend that this site doesn't have it's fair share of zealous belt-notchers.  As a former junior welterweight belt-notcher I can smell 'em a mile away...

[jeffwarne]

If you play golf and enjoy traveling to play golf, are you belt notching?
I'm not trying to learn anything, just enjoy new courses, preferably links but not always.
The more obscure the better

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe - Thanks for your post - I really appreciate it.

You wrote, "Are there really people whose sole motive in playing the top 100 courses is to complete a list and brag to everyone they accomplished such a feat?  If there are I've never met them...or maybe I'm too dumb/niave to relize their intentions.  I know I enjoy the blogs or posts on various websites of those who write about their experiences playing golf."

My answer is ABSOLUTELY YES!   

I doubt we have that many here - the majority are like us - guys that love GCA and want to see the best.   But others in the world of golf aren't so altruistic and want only to say they've played the Top 100.

Like Pine Valley or ANGC - I've never played them, but I've walked them multiple times during tournaments.  And I am a very happy man for having done so.  Who cares if I haven't played - I've seen the architecture, the beauty, etc., and have smiled. 

[Doug Siebert]

Joe_Tucholski writes:
I'll go even further and say everyone has a list of courses they have played...it just may not be a comprehensive list.  

I have no such list.

Cheers,
Dan King

As long you can remember the name of ONE course you've played in your life, you have a (not comprehensive) list as defined by Joe 

[Dan King]

Doug Siebert writes:
As long you can remember the name of ONE course you've played in your life, you have a (not comprehensive) list as defined by Joe

I guess it kind of depends if I am doing the remembrances pre or post-medication.

Cheers,
Dan King

Creditors have better memories than debtors.
 --Benjamin Franklin

[Sean_A]

Doug Siebert writes:
As long you can remember the name of ONE course you've played in your life, you have a (not comprehensive) list as defined by Joe

I guess it kind of depends if I am doing the remembrances pre or post-medication.

Cheers,
Dan King

Creditors have better memories than debtors.
 --Benjamin Franklin

Come on Dan - you have a list of some sort tucked away in that beard.  I have seen it let loose here and there on where to go threads. 

Ciao

Wisdom is in the head, not the beard - an old north Euro proverb - don't know exactly which country.

[Dan King]

Sean Arble writes:
Come on Dan - you have a list of some sort tucked away in that beard.  I have seen it let loose here and there on where to go threads.

That's probably what went wrong. I wrote it in gray ink, and now suddenly it is camouflaged.

Cheers,
Dan King

For me, the great problem growing up in England was that I had a very narrow concept of what God can be, and it was damn close to an old man with a beard.
 --John Cleese