[Peter Pallotta]

Bart - I guess we all get what we deserve.The one who plays for the sake of playing is rewarded every time he plays, so he can never fall short of/fail at an external goal, or feel diminished by another's accomplishments. And then there's the belt notchers.

Peter

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tom
I'm guessing your remaining 2 are not in the top 10.

I could be called a top 10 notcher - I've found those to be important to see.
After seeing several of the rest, the other 90 aren't as important.

Dan
I bet you've seen several of the top 10, and 100% of your own top 10.

Cheers

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

How important is belt notching?

Well that kind of depends on whether you are currently loosing or gaining weight and thus waist size...  

Towards the end of my 16 days in the UK last summer, my pants were almost falling off of me as I walked all those courses.  That can be very embarrassing when you are playing great courses.  When I got back from the trip I needed to put a new notch in several of my belts so that the little metal thingy would be able to adjust them a bit smaller.  

So if you ask me as it relates to playing great courses, I think belt notching is very important.  And anyone who says otherwise is probably just a bit of an exhibitionist.

[Jackson C]

Bart - I guess we all get what we deserve.The one who plays for the sake of playing is rewarded every time he plays, so he can never fall short of/fail at an external goal, or feel diminished by another's accomplishments. And then there's the belt notchers.

Peter

Good perspective as always, which leads me to wonder ... is there a correlation between belt notching and always keeping score (pre-occupied with one's scorecard and handicap)?

[John Kavanaugh]

You can either be the show or see the show. A ticket in the audience is easier bought than a place earned on the stage. Play where you can, when you can however you can, nobody cares but you how or why you got there.

[hhuffines]

I would like to play all the British Open courses and the best of what North Carolina has to offer.  After that golf trips are about seeing different parts of the world and being with enjoyable people.   There are a lot of great courses which may or may not be on certain lists anyway.

[Carl Nichols]

There is some minimal level of qualty below which I don't enjoy myself that much -- maybe the equivalent of 4 stars on the Golf Digest public course rankings.  Above that, it's as much about the company, weather, location, etc., as it is about the quality of the course.  That's not to say that I don't prefer great courses -- give me a fun foursome and I'd much, much rather play Cypress than Spanish Bay (or even a Top 50 course).   But I'd also rather play my home course with my buddies than travel to play as a single at the 95th ranked course on some list. 

[Matthew Rose]

I would like to play all the British Open courses and the best of what North Carolina has to offer.  After that golf trips are about seeing different parts of the world and being with enjoyable people.   There are a lot of great courses which may or may not be on certain lists anyway.

I've thought about doing a UK trip with the intent to hit as much of the rota as possible.... how feasible is it to play four or five of these in a 10-14 day period of time?

[Scott Warren]

I pretty well stopped caring about ratings lists -- and definitely stopped using them to indicate which courses to play -- when I started to get an idea of who some of the panellists were.

Matthew,

That would be fairly easy -- Liverpool, Birkdale and Lytham are all very close to one another in north-west England, then a couple of hours' drive up the motorway and over the border to Troon and Turnberry, then duck across and hit Carnoustie and TOC within an hour of each other on the east coast of Scotland, with Muirfield not far away either.

The only Open Rota course that isn't near another is Sandwich in SE England.

[Sam Morrow]

I pretty well stopped caring about ratings lists -- and definitely stopped using them to indicate which courses to play -- when I started to get an idea of who some of the panellists were.

Matthew,

That would be fairly easy -- Liverpool, Birkdale and Lytham are all very close to one another in north-west England, then a couple of hours' drive up the motorway and over the border to Troon and Turnberry, then duck across and hit Carnoustie and TOC within an hour of each other on the east coast of Scotland, with Muirfield not far away either.

The only Open Rota course that isn't near another is Sandwich in SE England.

You told me the only reason you were coming to America was to notch your belt.

[John_Conley]

The sad thing about the belt-notchers is that some of them don't have time to go across the street and play the other cool course in town, because they are too fixated on heading off to the next top-100 check box.

Tom, so very true.  Good point.  

I caddied at a course that has always been on every list.  People would come to town and ask to play it or the other.  I suppose they might check out the others if they were denied access, but I only saw those that got to play.

80% of these guests would not have any idea that over a half-dozen other courses in town were just a hair below.  

The Information Age has changed this, as has a proliferation of lists.  And I'll say that's a good thing.

[John_Conley]

  I turned down an all expense paid trip to play the world list because of the time commitment. 

Tommy, I've always figured there just aren't many folks able to spend the money necessary so they can play the Top 100 courses in the world.  There have to be far, far fewer willing to spend the money for someone else to do it.

[John Kavanaugh]

Everyone who has a list of the courses they have played is a belt notcher. There is nothing wrong with that. As long as you don't speak Ill of the courses you skip or are forced to accept as a substitute it doesn't define you as a person. It can be a fine little hobby.

[Anders Rytter]

If trying to play a list, is the purpose then having fun or impressing others? do you genuinely enjoy a game of golf more because a course is on a list? Some might feel that way but it can't say that i understand it.

I wouldn't be anti list either. Whether a course is on a list or not just doesn't influence the experience for me.

I enjoy the game of golf, i like to see how the game translates onto different terrain, how (natural?, man made?, unique?) features makes the players do something new or think in a new way just because we hit a small white ball arround.  Thats my purpose for traveling arround the world with the clubs.

BTW, i'm somewhat serious about the level of my game though, (the handicap the number is not that important, its just a proxy for how well i've been playing lately). Guess that puts me in my own camp.

[JC Jones]

I pretty well stopped caring about ratings lists -- and definitely stopped using them to indicate which courses to play -- when I started to get an idea of who some of the panellists were.

It's probably not nice of you to talk about Mayhugh and Colton that way.  Just because you don't like them on the Internet doesn't mean you know all of the courses they've played and how they rated them.  Moreover, how can you know whether you disagree with their ratings or not unless you've also played the course? 

[John Kavanaugh]

If you wear golf shirts from where you have played then you are a belt notcher. It just came to me that I can't find my Sand Hills shirt. The funny thing is that of all the great courses I have notched the one that I get asked about most often is Canyata. It's only 30 miles from work and the owner has done a great job keeping the locals off.

[John Kavanaugh]

On the topic of belt notching. It just came to me that on my visit to Canyata I forgot my pants in the van of the raters whose coat tails I was riding. Interesting story when my wife opened a package addressed to me and found a pair of my soiled slacks. You would have thought I could have gotten a courtesy dry clean.

[Dan Herrmann]

To me, the concept of belt notching is gross.  It symbolizes something in our society that just drives me nuts - the need for "trophies" for everything.  Trophy course list, trophy car, trophy wife, trophy 2nd home, etc.   

Besides, how do these guys get access? 

[John Kavanaugh]

To me, the concept of belt notching is gross.  It symbolizes something in our society that just drives me nuts - the need for "trophies" for everything.  Trophy course list, trophy car, trophy wife, trophy 2nd home, etc.   

Besides, how do these guys get access? 

Dan,

You and Laura can play anywhere you choose because you are a lovely infectious couple.  I think we have to be careful about judging people on why they want to play great courses.

[Dan Herrmann]

John - Thank you very much  Your point is well taken.

I guess my emotions came from one event - some Golf Digest rater from Utah comes into our club one day to do a rating.  He played through our group on the 5th hole - playing alone and at a rate that made me shake my head in confusion.  He was apparently trying to play French Creek and the two Stonewall courses (1/10 mile away) in one day.  I have no idea what other Philly courses he played, but I'll bet they were treated the same.  I remember hoping that he didn't get on any of the "biggies" like Merion, PV, the 'Mink, etc.  He didn't deserve it.

Our pro at the time said the rater didn't even stop in the shop to say "thank you" after the round and left the course still wearing his golf shoes.

To me, he was a belt notcher, and I guess I shouldn't have put his ilk into that category.  Guess he was just a jerk...

[Steve Salmen]

I would like to notch every links course in the world on my belt.  BTW, I found at least one flaw in the Pepper book so I have to use my own definition.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - Thank you very much  Your point is well taken.

I guess my emotions came from one event - some Golf Digest rater from Utah comes into our club one day to do a rating.  He played through our group on the 5th hole - playing alone and at a rate that made me shake my head in confusion.  He was apparently trying to play French Creek and the two Stonewall courses (1/10 mile away) in one day.  I have no idea what other Philly courses he played, but I'll bet they were treated the same.  I remember hoping that he didn't get on any of the "biggies" like Merion, PV, the 'Mink, etc.  He didn't deserve it.

Our pro at the time said the rater didn't even stop in the shop to say "thank you" after the round and left the course still wearing his golf shoes.

To me, he was a belt notcher, and I guess I shouldn't have put his ilk into that category.  Guess he was just a jerk...

Dan,

With all due respect to the fine members of French Creek and the Stonewall courses, I wouldn't scuff a shoe trying to play either. I'd say that rater was simply "paying his dues" while on the way to Merion and others. Doing the heavy lifting so to speak.

[jeffwarne]

I know I probably started as a belt notcher just due to a lack of information in the preinternet age, but I'd often find the courses I stumbled upon were nearly always my favorites.
Once using the internet and other great resources such as The Confidential Guide and more recently this website, the need for a Top 100 list became less and less.
I always try to play the local gems of an area, specifically 9 holers as they make a nice end to a 27 hole day, and are usually low key, unpretentious and charming.
Ironically, one very good internet resouces is UK Top 100, where I've been able to research and eventually play many non Top 100 courses

I do try to avoid playing courses where playing there is a big production(caddies in white suits or even caddies at all), and Top 100's often fall into this category.
I'd much prefer to play a low priced, low key, unpretentious raw gem where the staff is pleased(and curious) to see you.
The Northwest of Ireland is the capital of this category. ,but I much enjoy the remote/holiday courses of New England for many of the same reasons.

[John Kavanaugh]

A belt notching paradox is that the higher a course is on a list the more likely that you will play for free.

[Tim Martin]

A belt notching paradox is that the higher a course is on a list the more likely that you will play for free.

Kav-Stay hot because you own this thread.

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