Tillinghast's Golden Valley: What's not to love and why don't we hear about it?

[Phil McDade]

I just spent a few minutes looking at some Minnesota course aerials, thanks to the mayor's thread on Keller, and came across this aerial of Golden Valley:

http://mnpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/mnpga12/event/mnpga1277/course/goldenvalleygcc/aerial.htm?next=..%2F..%2Findex.htm

Aerials may not be a great way to judge something, but this looks like a terrific course with some interesting routing.

-- It sits on three distinct parcels of land, stacked on top of each other, severed by a major road and a (presumably) active rail line.

-- One hole, #6, moves from one parcel of the course to another with a tee shot over the rail line. How cool is that?

-- The use of a creek on the upper portion of the course looks really interesting, particularly on the approach to #7 and on two par 5s -- #6 and #10.

-- It doesn't look overly bunkered -- fairway bunkering looks fairly modest -- but the greenside bunkering ala Tillinghast looks fierce in spots.

Some comments previously on GCA suggest it's had some work done lately. It looks like a very good course; is it as good on the ground as it appears in the air?

[Niall Hay]

Great question Phil. Often wondered the same thing....

[Dan Kelly]

Phil --

A search for "Golden Valley" (use the quotation marks) will, I think, put the lie to the second half of your thread title.

I've played it only twice. Having played it twice, I think it's very, very good, and the only things not to love are the power lines (which come into play on at least one hole, and maybe more) and the guest fee (I've paid $125 each time, which struck me as above-market).

It has some of the greatest deep, deep bunkers I've ever tried to avoid, and then played from.

Some wickedly sloping greens. As at Oak Ridge, you don't want to be above the hole.

Rick Shefchik devoted a chapter of "From Fields to Fairways" to the Golden Valley Golf & Country Club.

Dan

[John_Conley]

One of my favorite courses.  As mentioned, the property is cut up a bit.  It has five par 3s that are all about the same length.  And when it was a Par 73 there were six par 5s, so it was considered an "easy" course.

I used to tell people, "take a college player out there and don't give him a scorecard.  He'll come in talking about how tough the Par 4s were."  Of course, they were actually three Par 5s.

I think some of those have been converted to Par 4s now, which certainly will help it appeal to anyone that equates tough with good.

Tim Herron won the State Am and afterward attributed his success to never getting above the hole all week.  Like many courses in the Twin Cities, you have nearly automatic 3-putts on several greens if you don't approach the hole from the front.

[Jason Topp]

Very fun course.  Very difficult bunkers and tilted greens.  Property is chopped up and marshy in certain areas.  A bunch of par threes that are 175 yards although they do not seem repetitive.  When the greens are rolled and the pins are in competition locations the course will eat most mortals alive. 

My view on twin cities golf is that it has about 10 very good courses that I could argue are my favorite.  Golden Valley is one of those.

[Jason Topp]

Very fun course.  Very difficult bunkers and tilted greens.  Property is chopped up and marshy in certain areas.  A bunch of par threes that are 175 yards although they do not seem repetitive.  When the greens are rolled and the pins are in competition locations the course will eat most mortals alive. 

Kind of embarrassing when I checked the confidential guide on the course.  My description pretty much summarizes Doak's.  I like to think that some of my thoughts about golf courses are original.  This one seems derivative.

[Phil McDade]

Phil --

A search for "Golden Valley" (use the quotation marks) will, I think, put the lie to the second half of your thread title.



Dan

Dan:

Did that, and didn't see much that went into detail about what it's like on the ground. GV seems to me to get a little less notice around there than some of the other classic-era Minnesota courses -- was hoping to see some actual ground-level pics. Seems a worthy course of detailed study, given link to Tilly, interesting bunker work (you can even notice their depth from the aerial), funky configuration, and ability to test the game.

[PCCraig]

Golden Valley is a very good golf course that deserves more talk than it receives. My guess is that most travelers to the area spend much of their efforts getting on Hazeltine, WBYC, Interlachen, and Minikahda...while forgetting the many other really good courses in the area. Golden Valley isn't as good as the other four courses I just mentioned, but it's not far behind. What others have said is correct, the bunkering is really severe (I believe they were renovated about 5 years ago around the same time and by the same people who renovated Minneapolis Golf Club's bunkers), and the greens are sloped and pretty fast. But what you can't tell from the aerial photo is that a lot of what appears to be a straight hole often comes alive due to elevation changes and the natural bumps and rolls. If they "made" Golden Valley a par-70 and grew the rough up a bit I would imagine that it would be a stern test for even the high ranking amateur and professional set.

Back to the original question, what's not to love? Well, I think there are a few awkward holes, notably #7 where the player is too easily blocked out by trees on the 2nd shot towards the green and the 10th hole which is a long narrow par-5 with three awkward shots. The par-3's are really pretty repetitive and are all mid-iron or longer. And generally speaking I think the course would be overly hard for the mid-to-high handicapper. Just my opinion though and in reality I'm probably being a bit picky in finding flaws because that's that the title of the thread asks for.

I'm playing the course in a week and a half or so in an outing and could probably snap a picture or two if your interested in seeing what a particular hole looks like from the ground.

[Rick Shefchik]

Golden Valley was worked on by a variety of architects, most notably Tom Bendelow and William Watson, who rerouted and added holes to the course from 1916 until Tillinghast was hired in 1925 to redesign the course. This photo illustrates two of the problems every architect had to wrestle with at Golden Valley: a road and a railroad track that crisscrossed in the middle of the property:



There is also a low area on the north side of the course, where the original holes were laid out, that presented frequent drainage issues. But all those problems have been dealt with and Golden Valley really is an outstanding golf course.

[Phil McDade]

I'm playing the course in a week and a half or so in an outing and could probably snap a picture or two if your interested in seeing what a particular hole looks like from the ground.

Pat:

Since you asked......(don't feel obligated to any or all of these)

-- Just how deep are those greenside bunkers at 4?
-- Is 5 a true NADER?
-- Tee shot at 6! Over or under the wires?
-- Second shot at 7, esp. inside of the dogleg if that in fact is blocked as mentioned here. That seems to be the route to take, as it appears to open up the green and make that approach a bit less dodgey.
-- The tee shot from the very back tees at 9 looks intimidating; that looks to be an interesting hole with some rare and strategic fairway bunkering and a smallish green.
-- Is 14 Eden-like?

[Mark Johnson]

ive always felt that GV was a course that is probably a bit less than the sum of its parts.

Some great holes and greens for sure.   Great greenside bunkering but very little fairway bunkers

However, there really isnt much flow of the course for me.  Starting with 2 par 5s is just awkward  It was almost like I was playing 2 or 3 separate courses and i played the same hole a few times.   also the back tees seem much like an afterthought and really dont match the course.

Some of the short par 5 holes looks just like a hole from Bethpage Red.  The short par 5 on the front (5 or 6) with the green protected by a river is probably my favorite hole on the course.

I'd give it a Doak 6.

[Jason Topp]

From memory - Mucci style
Pat:

Since you asked......(don't feel obligated to any or all of these)

-- Just how deep are those greenside bunkers at 4? I don't remember the bunkers on 4.  The bunker on the left side of 12 is far deeper than head high
-- Is 5 a true NADER?I don't think so.
-- Tee shot at 6! Over or under the wires? Through
-- Second shot at 7, esp. inside of the dogleg if that in fact is blocked as mentioned here. That seems to be the route to take, as it appears to open up the green and make that approach a bit less dodgey.It is 290 to the corner from the back tee.  I must play wide
-- The tee shot from the very back tees at 9 looks intimidating; that looks to be an interesting hole with some rare and strategic fairway bunkering and a smallish green.It is not that intimidating off the tee - it is significantly downhill.  The green is tiny, raised above the fairway and has back to from tilt so steep that I have putted off the green a couple of times.
-- Is 14 Eden-like?Not really.  It is downhill a bit.  There is 9 yards between the bunkers.  You really just try and hit the green.


[/quote]

[Jason Topp]

To get a sense of why 10 is controversial, it is 183 yards from the tee to the corner of the dogleg on the diagram.  A back tee has been added behind and to the right of the tee shown on the aerial that gives a few more options.

[Morgan Clawson]

I agree that Golden Valley is a stern test for the bogie golfer.

I checked the score card on the course's website.  It still plays to a par 73 with 6 par 5s and 5 par 3s.

The back tees are over 7,000 yards and the rating/slope is 75/144.
The next set of tees are almost 6500 yards and the rating slope is 72/140.
There is quite a bit of water (creek and ponds), and OOB is close on a few holes, so racking-up penalty strokes is not too difficult.


I have hit the overhead wires on 6 several times. The local rule, or the one that the members play by, is that you get to re-tee with no penalty.

This course is definitely underappreciated in the Twin Cities.

The course does feel a bit disconnected because of the 3 parcels. I suspect this is why most peoole don't hold it in as high a regard as some others in town.