Where does the trap or hazard start…

[Melvyn Morrow]

that is where does it start to come into play in the mind of the golfer. Are those odd sited bunker(s) we note today which some consider pointless, even redundant or have we missed out on some subtle design, lost as later modifications misunderstood the original intent? It leads me on to wonder are certain bunkers that appear to be out of line of play really there to confuse or perhaps quietly guide the player into the actual mouth of the traps ahead. I have at times looked at TOC with some of the bunkers (some now gone) and pondered the question or are they simply the revers play in action?

Was it a rouse by the then or later designers or just an out of place hazard? Perhaps the next time you see a bunker that seem redundant on an old course, might be worth checking it out  

Strategic design or the subtleness of a Chess Master behind GCA?  

Any thoughts?

[Mike Nuzzo]

I think it is weird & sad when the modern player wonders why a bunker is in a particular place
It demonstrates how the modern player is trained to see bunkers only where they are supposed to be - Left and right of all the landing zones and surrounding the greens
Bunkers or hazards can be anywhere or anything - just because one didn't see it or if it didn't effect their play doesn't mean it won't effect another's play

Thanks MHM

[Matt MacIver]

Some people hit it where they're looking, and big scary hazards easily catch my eye. 

[Mark Saltzman]

I think it is weird & sad when the modern player wonders why a bunker is in a particular place
It demonstrates how the modern player is trained to see bunkers only where they are supposed to be - Left and right of all the landing zones and surrounding the greens
Bunkers or hazards can be anywhere or anything - just because one didn't see it or if it didn't effect their play doesn't mean it won't effect another's play

Thanks MHM

Mike, in today's world of yardage guides with overhead aerials, sky caddies and lasers, is it not fair to say that some bunkers have lost t heir purpose? I believe some bunkers key function were to make depth perception and club selection a more difficult task. For many today club selection relies on nothing more than looking at the number on the gps and throwing up a piece of grass in the air -- the visual is almost irrelevant. 

I am not a distance aid hater, I use them and don't care if others do or don't , but I am sure these aids have rendered some design features (many of which were very cleverly laid out) irrelevant.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Mark
I agree until your your intellect, what ever yardage stick you use, doesn't match your feeling or what it appears to be.
Then your body has to choose between the two, often mid-swing. 

This is a reason to like bumps and swales more than bunkers.
Cheers

[Mark Saltzman]

I agree until your your intellect, what ever yardage stick you use, doesn't match your feeling or what it appears to be.
Then your body has to choose between the two, often mid-swing. 

Mike, I understand this position and simply don't know if you're right or wrong.

I was recently talking with a scracth-ish handicap golfer about a Ross course we'd both played.  Not surprisingly, it featured a top-shot bunker or two.  He was telling how stupid some of the bunkering was on the golf couse, especially these top-shot bunkers, as they served no purpose.  I explained a bit about how it made depth perception difficult and how it obscured the LZ.  He just looked at me like I was an idiot. He said "I've played the course a bunch of times. I know where the fairway is.  I know where I want to it.  I know how far I want to hit it.  All that bunker is is something for me ball to wave goodbye to as it flies over it."

I understand what he is saying. 

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ruin a great experience and game so that you have a little edge,  some information that quite frankly as far as I am concerned is best obtained by one’s own efforts and is one of the reason why I played the game since my youth.

You throw all that away including some great designs because you need help in playing the game.

That’s your choice but why bother, why take the pleasure out of the game for the sake of outside aids.

I cannot get my mind around why people ruin it for themselves, but then its their life and money they waste. Soon design may become obsolete thanks to new improved outside aids, then where will you game be then as no design to test your little grey cells – ops forgot that’s not the purpose of you game, your input comes from aids.

Melvyn

[Mike Nuzzo]

Melvyn
Some people like their steaks rare, some well done, some even eat vegetables.
It is still food to them.

Mark
Yes, that bunker certainly isn't for him.

I played a nice course recently.
The greens were big and bold, as was the green side bunkering.
One of the later holes, maybe the 16th, was a bit deceptive, the entire complex - greens and bunkers were shrunk about 25%.
It looked like the others, but it was closer than it looked.
Two regulars I played with shot 69 & 72, and are sometimes unsure of their approaches because it feels different.

Cheers