[Joe Bausch]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Ralph Trost wrote in 1930 for the Brooklyn Daily Eagle a pretty good article on the desirability of blind holes.  Included is discussion of some holes on famous courses:



This article resonates with me as a restored Cobb's Creek golf course would include a blind drive on the original 6th hole (as well as one already present on the current 10th hole).

If you are new to GCA, what are your thoughts on blind holes?  If you are a veteran to GCA, have your views on blind holes changed at all over the years?  If you are an architect, what are your thoughts on holes requiring blind shots?

[Jim_Kennedy]

In New England you either learn to enjoy blind holes or you don't play golf.

My views about them have never changed, I like them. I also like the advantage they give to a player with a memory.

[Jason Thurman]

There's nothing more suspenseful in golf than smoking a shot on what looks like a perfect line, and then waiting in anticipation as you crest the top of the hill to find out where it finished.

Blind shots are great in small doses.

[Terry Lavin]

It's a dosage-related phenomenon for me. A few is okay. More than that gets trying.

[Bill_McBride]

I love 'em.  At Elie in Scotland there are half a dozen tee shots where you aim at a pole at the top of the ridge.   I don't know of many more fun courses.   Blind tee shots are more tolerable than blind approaches.   

[Tim Martin]

Love em.

[Paul Carey]

First of all I love the good ones.  The excitement of climbing over the blindness to see where the ball  ended is such a great part of golf.

Now, more importantly, why I love this site.  I could try to have this discussion with the guys I play with and their eyes glaze over with not many thoughtful comments.

[Dan Herrmann]

Love 'em.

[Phil McDade]

Can't get enough of them:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39987.0.html

[John McCarthy]

In the words of the wise man, you may not like it but you'll learn to love it.

[Garland Bayley]

Some of us high handicappers are more relaxed and hit better shots when the target is not in view and specific with all the accompanying hazards. Count me as a liker.

[Mike_Trenham]

Don't play them well and I like them.  I like the anticipation of arriving at a well played shot, kind of like the Kirk Theory effect.  I don't deal well with the doubt they put in my head as you make my backswing.   Better on shorter par 4's and reachable par 5's, quirky if a par 3.

[Ken Moum]

Having just played Wild Horse and Awarii Dunes, I got to see a few blind shots, something that rarely happens at the courses I usually play.

I find them fascinating, because I am incapable, it seems, of hitting a decent shot when I have no picture in my head of what I want it to do.

So blind shots, and even confusing ones where I can't really figure out whether a bunker is in reach or not, cause me all sorts of problems.  So I should hate them.

But I don't.  Partly because I have been indoctrinated that if I am to ever appreciate GCA, I must not hate them. 

But I am also affected by the people I know who do hate blind holes, and centerline hazards, and ludicrously contoured greens--all of which I saw in abundance at the aforementioned courses.  I am affected by their opinions, because they also think that divots should be ground under repair, that playing the ball down is only necessary when the course is perfect, and that the best courses are "fair."

So I they hate blind holes, there must be something truly wonderful about them.

Now, I don't "get" blindness-- or significant quirk for that matter--on resort courses or daily fee courses where a majority of the play will be a one-time thing.

Hitting over a dune is wonderful if you have some clue of where to aim, or where the hole goes on the other side.  Doing it with no idea of what's waiting for you isn't so much fun.

K

[Patrice Boissonnas]

I agree with most of the above.
A good hole is always a good hole whether blind or not.
Too many blind holes are boring as much as too many whatever (short holes, OB etc.)
The excitement of walking to a blind ball location after hitting a good one is unbeatable.
One more thing : many golf courses now tend to be to standardised (par 72 with 10 par 4s, 4 par 3s & 5s etc.) and I like when a lay out is not always logical or rational. Best holes are found rather than made and great holes can be found with a blind shot. There are so many great examples...
I say YES to a little bit of madness and irrational, so YES to a limited number of blind shots, blind drives as well as blind approaches. Best blind shots are when you don't see the target but when some visible features near the target are visible, like a high dune near a blind green and you know this dune is at green's height.

[Jud_T]

I love blind holes and often don't care for those who don't.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Blind Hole is forever the equaliser. The very fact of its unknown quantities mirrors the game of golf by displaying that the game is all about testing oneself with the willingness to go and face all potential challenges thrown down by God, Nature and Man.

Blind Holes make players think, no reliance on outside aids as they are of little use, forcing the player to play the game. Perhaps that's why so many dislike Blind Holes these days, yet they are the building blocks of calling yourself a ‘Golfer’.

As for Blind Holes and slow play, that I am afraid is rubbish. Slow play is due to players not considering others and too much reliance on aids.

They are the challenge modern players do not want to encounter due mainly to their reliance on outside aids dumbing down their natural instincts.

[PCCraig]

I love blind shots. Which is funny as I grew up in a place where the only blind shots where those when trees blocked out a view to the green!

My home course has about 6-7 blind or partially blind shots throughout the round (some depending on what part of the fairway you're on). Here's the 2nd shot on a ~460 yard par 4 which needs to quickly carry a 35ft wall:


I've also found my new favorite thing...downhill blind shots.

[Mark McKeever]

We need Trevor Seufer for comment...

Mark

[Jeff_Brauer]

Generally I dislike them, but will tolerate them if it's clear there was no other option for the designer, and if they still define the generalized line of play, with a small saddle or valley or mound or flag marking the line.  Also, I don't mind the blind shot as an agressive option, as long as the conservative LOP is clearly visible.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jeff

Do you sometimes ever get that feeling that you are missing something from your game? Wonder if it could be Blind Holes. Just imagine playing a Hole with no visual or mechanical aid to help, one just has to rely upon God’s gifts and a little Devilment from the Designer. What fun that could be, but the real question, is it your purpose to have others enjoy themselves and game or have a long boring course devoid of anything that can test the human mind and spirit. These Holes with others are the spice of one’s golfing life, embrace them and you will have a big smile across your face. Again perhaps we need to investigate the reason people play golf in the first place. Surely it can’t be all about winning as only a few ever do compared to the vast majority that play the game.

Be young and strong and enjoy the unknown, it could put a smile upon your face, at worst it will not destroy your round in the way Island Green Holes can & do.

[Joe Bausch]

If you followed my recent Philmont North thread, you might remember that it contained two holes, each with blind tee shots (#6 and #10).  Check out where they are in the routing:



Notice anything that is likely when playing it on the ground?  If you are paying attention, you'll see the 6th hole clearly when playing the 5th, and when walking from 9 green to 10 tee, it is simple to see where you need to hit the tee shot.  So the shots aren't quite as blind as you might think.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Melvyn,

I have played a lot of blind holes, and I enjoy them when they fit my criteria above just fine.  As an architect and golfer, I hate them when I know or sense that the architect just didn't try hard enough.  One gca actually told me he was fine if his courses had a few bad (not just blind) holes, because he didn't work hard enough to avoid them.

I don't care for them conceptually as an architect for a lot of reasons.  First, I was taught that way, and despite all the calls for them here, I still think to avoid blind holes via routing, features, etc.  Second, as an LA, I dislike the thought of creating landscape beauty and then hiding it, although the slow reveal is occaisionally great, too.  Maybe more suited to the "sense of entry" into a golf corridor. 

There are saftey problems, of course, and most golfers just don't like them.  And, most owners hate to pay for expensive sand bunkers just to hide them from full view!

As a golfer, I sure don't feel cheated, either.  While I enjoy a variety of hole concepts, not having any one particular one on a golf course, including blind shots sure doesn't distract from my day!

[Jason Topp]

I do not think my preferences have changed much over the years.  I enjoy the unique challenge of a blind shot and think it tests the player in a unique way.  I suspect most of the courses I really like feature blind shots and their absence on a course takes away a bit of the magic of the game.

[Sean_A]

Well, I sure don't agree with Jeff.  If a site didn't allow for blind holes I would like the archie to create some blindness/obscured views - probably with large and deep bunkering.  A course can't be perfect (if perfection exists) without the uncertainty of blindness.

What I hate about archies avoiding blind holes is when they make me walk without hitting shots.  This strategy makes no sense to me.  Either way I am walking so why make me walk up to a spot just so I can see the fairway from the tee?  I will see the fairway soon enough, just make the tee shot accommodating for a blind shot.  We don't always need pretty and expensive bunkers to map us to the green.  

Of course, I have come across the opposite - if you can believe it.  Calderone Farms in Michigan had at least two holes which required a longish walk to a blind tee from a spot that was not blind.  It was the darnest thing!  The archie should have been shot, but I am guessing he didn't expect many folks to walk the course and realize what he had done.  

Ciao        

[Carl Johnson]

Don't like a blind shot until I get used to it.  But, then, is it really fair to call it blind any longer?  I think it is, but I know others would disagree.

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