Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?

[Melvyn Morrow]

What a load of self-absorbed crap! Kumbaya to all five of you. Just as well, four is too many for two carts.

If I understand correctly the US system the above is from a man who requires the will and of course by that I mean the votes of his people to take office.

Clearly with Terry there is just no justice in his little world. Or is it his inability to examine the facts correctly and offer an unbiased verdict or should that be judgement.

I am minded of the old saying ‘People in glasshouses should not throw stones’, however I guess Terry does not understand what it means, now there is justice for you. 

[William_G]

so if we are all golfers, then it is clear that walking is preferrable to riding in seeking the most enlightened and thorough experience of the game and the course.

it's also clear that golf can be enjoyed from a cart

each course can be impacted by the whther it encourages walking or riding

walking courses inherently appear less impacted by concrete and such facilities to facilitate riding

i prefer courses where walking is encouraged and carts are absent

my preference is to walk and carry at all times 

and I prefer bow hunting rather than rifle hunting

[Sam Morrow]

so if we are all golfers, then it is clear that walking is preferrable to riding in seeking the most enlightened and thorough experience of the game and the course.

it's also clear that golf can be enjoyed from a cart

each course can be impacted by the whther it encourages walking or riding

walking courses inherently appear less impacted by concrete and such facilities to facilitate riding

i prefer courses where walking is encouraged and carts are absent

my preference is to walk and carry at all times 

and I prefer bow hunting rather than rifle hunting

I've tried to get into bow hunting but don't have the time to practice. I want the instant gratification, I guess like when I ride in a cart with non golfers like Bernhardt.

[Sean_A]

I tried bow hunting a few times and was nearly stampeded!  The deer must have known I had no chance of success.

I am sensing that some folks thinks walkers have some sort of divine right of fairways and knowledge, but I hope my senses are wrong.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I'm calling BS on the "mandatory cart" nonsense.

I've played 125+ courses now and maybe 10 of them were "no walking allowed"....and for good reason, they were mostly mountain style golf courses in Utah with severe elevation differentials.

I agree with Bill S that there is more than a fair bit of hypocrisy with what is "proper" for the game and what isn't, especially as it pertains to modern equipment and modern conditioning of golf courses.

[Garland Bayley]

I'm calling BS on the "mandatory cart" nonsense.

...

That's right. "mandatory cart" is nonsense.

[Brent Hutto]

Kalen,

One would do well to avoid generalizing outside one's own local environment. And a lot of "walking allowed" courses in my area are "no walking allowed" if you want to play on a weekend morning. Or semi-privates allow members to walk but green fee players much ride.

There are I believe eight other courses within a 10-mile radius of my club. On a Saturday morning if for some reason I don't play at my home course I will either be required to ride in a cart, play the incredibly crowded county-owned course or go somewhere outside that 10-mile radius. Now maybe I live in the middle of some kind of geographical oddity but I doubt it.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

One would do well to avoid generalizing outside one's own local environment. And a lot of "walking allowed" courses in my area are "no walking allowed" if you want to play on a weekend morning. Or semi-privates allow members to walk but green fee players much ride.

There are I believe eight other courses within a 10-mile radius of my club. On a Saturday morning if for some reason I don't play at my home course I will either be required to ride in a cart, play the incredibly crowded county-owned course or go somewhere outside that 10-mile radius. Now maybe I live in the middle of some kind of geographical oddity but I doubt it.

Brent,

I agree with what your saying in concept, but unfortunately it would seem you're falling into the trap of generalizing based on your small area.  I'm basing my sample size on various courses spread across Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, California, Montana, New Mexico, and Colorado.  I'd bet my entire months salary that less than 20% of courses in the US prohibit walking, and more likely less than 10%....that's a teeny minority.

[Brent Hutto]

Check back with me in 15 years. Along about 1997 when I hadn't been playing very long there were only one or two courses in my area that wouldn't let you walk any time you like. Now it's up to 50/50 or worse. They'll come for your courses eventually.

[Dan King]

Kalen Braley writes:
I'm calling BS on the "mandatory cart" nonsense.

Okay.

I've played 125+ courses now and maybe 10 of them were "no walking allowed"....and for good reason, they were mostly mountain style golf courses in Utah with severe elevation differentials.

And how many have you played that were walking only?  The trend is going the wrong way. Even on this forum, where it was always -- and might still be -- dominated by fans of traditional golf, there are a lot of posters wanting Bandon to become more cart friendly. I find it very disturbing that you people can't be happy with 99 percent of American golf courses cart friendly.

I agree with Bill S that there is more than a fair bit of hypocrisy with what is "proper" for the game and what isn't, especially as it pertains to modern equipment and modern conditioning of golf courses.

I've claimed the mantle of hypocrite many times. I've ridden and even driven carts numerous times for a variety of reasons. However, I love walking golf and would never have that same love for cartball. The point of this thread was to argue for leaving Bandon our little oasis in America for those that love walking golf.

I also like to point out the damages carts have done to the game I love. There are plenty of people that believe walking and carts are an either or decision, without recognizing the damage carts have done to golf.

Cheers,
Dan King

The civilized man has built a coach, but has lost the use of his feet.
 --Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Self-Reliance," 1841

[Bryan Izatt]

Melvyn,

Re your concern about a competitive advantage for cart-ballers in matches against walkers, the following is a small study of the physical and scoring impact of walking vs riding.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903EFDC153EF931A3575BC0A9669D8B63&pagewanted=all 

Not surprisingly, more calories are consumed when walking (721) than when riding (411).  The impact on scoring is not so dramatically different.  Riding led to better scoring than walking and carrying, but walking with a push cart led to better scoring than riding.  So, I guess you'll need to regulate the use of push carts if you want to level the playing field.

[JC Jones]

What about walking with a caddie?

[Chris DeNigris]

I would bet that walking with a caddie would yield the best scoring...especially if said caddie was good at reading subtle breaks 

I wish I could play every round of golf that way.

[Bryan Izatt]

Read the article.  A few less calories than carrying, but better scoring than cart-ballers while not as good scoring as push-carters, although I would imagine the caddie in the study was more bag carrier than green reader.

[Will Lozier]

What about walking with a caddie?

JC,

Read the article...it covers four scenarios.

Cheers

[Mike Hendren]

I say no.

I doubt I'll return since economics compel me to play 36 without a caddy while my pathetic physical condition - primarily  my back, simply won't allow it.  I see no reason for Bandon to accomodate me and frankly would be embarrassed if they did.  

Does anybody know if Streamsong will have carts

Bogey

[Brent Hutto]

Does anybody know if Streamsong will have carts

Bogey

I should have known somebody would go there. And I might have guessed who it would be.

Where's that BITE ME thread again...

[Tim Johnson]

My two cents with respect to walking vs riding and scores. In my 20's when I was a hacker. We would usually get a cart, wouldnt ride it all the time but we were young and enjoying a couple of beers. We used to refer to the cart as a beer holder. Now that I am in my 40's and play the game more seriously, I walk because it gets the blood going. I think my scoring gets better due to the fact that I walk. If you are in a cart most of the round, you are not warming up and getting loose. If I am playing a course with mandatory carts, typically I let the other guy drive and I walk to my ball. I think walking would actually be a benefit over carts if you are in somewhat good health.

I was surprised to see that carting actually consumed that many calories vs walking, as I carry a little bit of weight up front, I was kinda hoping for a bigger spread in calories but will still walk the course, I need the exercise and really need to lower my front 9 scores, I am 4 shots worse on the front versus the back.

[Brent Hutto]

there is typically a lot of walking incidental to a game of golf played from a cart.

[Chris DeNigris]

Wonder why the study only consisted of 9 holes per round?

I would bet the scoring statistics would be different if all 18 were factored.

Nice study for comparison purposes but way too many course variables for any concrete conclusions.

[Tim Johnson]

Brent
I guess there is, I was pretty surprised when I read the numbers though. Never really thought about it prior but just kinda assumed that it would be a bigger spread. Playing a 6400 yrd course, I would walk those 6400 yds plus somewhat the same in incidentals.
It was interesting to read.

[Mark Pritchett]

And how many have you played that were walking only?  The trend is going the wrong way. Even on this forum, where it was always -- and might still be -- dominated by fans of traditional golf, there are a lot of posters wanting Bandon to become more cart friendly. I find it very disturbing that you people can't be happy with 99 percent of American golf courses cart friendly.
America for those that love walking golf.

Dan King

You should really say the trend is going the wrong way according to you, not as an absolute.  What do you mean by "you people"?  

[Mike Hendren]

You should really say the trend is going the wrong way according to you, not as an absolute.  What do you mean by "you people"?  

Come on Captain, it's not like he's Ross Perot speaking to the NAACP convention.

[Mark Pritchett]

Bogey,

All in good fun! 

MP

[Kalen Braley]

I don't know what is wrong with everyone.  We should be thrilled that Dan and Melyvn take time out of thier busy schedules to weigh in on these things.

I mean its not easy being...