[Mark Steffey]

hate the sin, love the sinner

[Mark Johnson]

I probably have a unique perspective on this for a couple reasons

1) As some of your know, I am recovering from some serious shoulder issues, so I will be riding every round I play at least until October this year

2) I am in sales for a major CPG company and play a TON of corporate golf


Here are some of my thoughts

- I really dont believe that adding carts will materially change the vibe at bandon if nothing else changes.  Bandon will never get a ton of corporate play for a few reasons--  1) it is very hard to get to   2) the other amenties (food/spa) are either average or non-existent

- I also dont believe the caddy program will die if some carts are allowed

- Looking at 10 pages of posting, I don't think there is a single person here who said they would either visit Bandon less or play fewer rounds

- As many people have mentioned, Bandon is not being run to maximize profits right now -- specially driven by leaving tee times open to allow for replays.   Can anyone here ever remember not being able to get a replay round close to when you wanted it.


My take -- until profitably begins to change materially, i see no sign of anything changing

[Ben Sims]

Dan,

I like your response.  And I am very much in the camp that believes that Bandon should remain as is with regards to cart use.  I agree that a medical note should be the only way you're riding there.  And then it must be with a forecaddie.  

However, my last post was speaking generally about the ongoing and constant barrage of Melvyn's message.  He hasn't adjusted the coordinates of his mortar in some time, and I assume he think he can keep lobbing shells into the crater until he hits the other side of the world.  

It is this ceaselessness and unwillingness to see a gray area that makes the message so difficult to swallow.  I prefer a walking game and I do not enjoy the lazy style of design that carts have allowed to flourish from some architects.  However, I do not see the existence of carts as anathema to golf.  And going further, I--like our own esteemed Bob Huntley above--vehemently loathe the implication that I am not a golfer if I do use a cart from time to time.  This is what moderate individuals call fanaticism.  And in my opinion, many things wrong with the world can be traced to fanatical viewpoints.

In short, it is not so much that I disagree with Melvyn or yourself.  It is the unwillingness to acknowledge a differing viewpoint, a gray area that is the actual reality of what golf is to millions of people worldwide, that is so frustrating.

Melvyn,

I wouldn't expect you to actually engage me on anything resembling a lucid argument.  I understand--and it is truly lamentable--that age and injury have led to your not playing golf.  But presently between the two of us friend, I am the only one actually playing golf AND involved in national defense.  That you have so confidently commented on both without having a modern knowledge base in either is frankly, worthy of a laugh this beautiful Texas afternoon.  

What's even funnier is that you should mention "What about trying to win the hearts and minds of the people, by repairing the utilities destroyed by you[r] aircraft to show them you care and that you are committed."  Suffice to say, my last trip to southwest Asia had nothing to with destroying anything.  Rather, it was our mission to help build something.  

Politics aside--and I hope you'll keep them there--I have always stated that I admire your message and agree with it in part.  I hope we can all agree that part of the allure of golf is just simply being outside in a nice setting.  Walking or riding, golf allows you to do just that.  It also allows you engage in the challenge of hitting a golf ball and interacting with the environment.  Walking or riding, golf allows you to spend time with friends and opponents alike, and many times, they are one in the same.  I agree that you do miss something when you don't walk, but all of those other things remain.  And that is golf to me.

[Bob_Huntley]

Melvyn,

What is it that you don't know about handicapped golfers? Are you asking them to give up their passion?

Bob

[Dan King]

Mark Johnson writes:
I really dont believe that adding carts will materially change the vibe at bandon if nothing else changes.  Bandon will never get a ton of corporate play for a few reasons--  1) it is very hard to get to   2) the other amenties (food/spa) are either average or non-existent

I don't care much about rankings, but I'm guessing they either have three or four golf courses in most top-100 lists. Is there any other area with that high of a concentration of top rank golf available to the public? The only thing keeping the golf course trophy hunters away in mass is they know they need to be in good enough shape to handle the walk of the four golf courses. Give 'em cartball, and they will go in droves.

don't they still have Grandma Thayer's Meat Loaf and Redbreast Irish Pot Still Whiskey?

- I also dont believe the caddy program will die if some carts are allowed

So you just ignore the fact that carts have killed just about every other caddy program, and believe some how Bandon is different?

- Looking at 10 pages of posting, I don't think there is a single person here who said they would either visit Bandon less or play fewer rounds

I've said it twice on this thread.

- As many people have mentioned, Bandon is not being run to maximize profits right now -- specially driven by leaving tee times open to allow for replays.   Can anyone here ever remember not being able to get a replay round close to when you wanted it.

Right now there is a natural impediment to playing multiple rounds a day, you have to walk them. Open it up to all the people who can't walk 36 holes a day and you are going to see those second and third round replays get filled up and harder to come by.

Cheers,
Dan King

Call it BS, but if Bandon allows for cartball, I will not bother making the trip.
 --Dan King

[Dan King]

Ben Sims writes:
However, my last post was speaking generally about the ongoing and constant barrage of Melvyn's message.  He hasn't adjusted the coordinates of his mortar in some time, and I assume he think he can keep lobbing shells into the crater until he hits the other side of the world.

I admire Melvyn's sticking to his guns. I gave up. I conceded defeat. I'm no longer fighting for what I believe, but just trying to hold onto one tiny bit of a world I love. Melvyn and I share many of the same beliefs, but I've been worn down by the years. I think American golf is forever lost, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I don't believe British golf is in anywhere near as bad a shape as U.S. golf, so I can sort of understand Melvyn holding onto his passion.

However, I do not see the existence of carts as anathema to golf.

It isn't carts necessarily that are an anathema to golf, but they are the canary in the mind shaft. I don't like American golf. It is about shots and not the experience of golf. Golf is a game that developed with a very healthy mix of the mental and the physical, and American golf is trying to reduce the influence of the mental.  Much of the change irritates me, but in most cases it doesn't change my love for the former game -- except when it results in poorly designed courses, the look of cart paths, carts and cartballers, and the unbearable slowness that is part of American golf.

Cheers,
Dan King

Would that I could hand on unimpaired the great game as it was my good fortune to know it!
 --Charles Blair Macdonald

[Ken Moum]

I don't like American golf.

Nor do I.

But what really saddens me, is what happened this afternoon.

I was crossing the parking lot on my way back into the clubhouse for a beverage after walking 18 at age 64, and I hear a guy who is 30 years younger than me ask his friend, also in his 30s, "Are you going to walk?" In the same tone of voice he might use to ask, "Are you nuts?"

To which his friend replied, "Hell no!"

As if they'd even think of walking....

K

[Tom Walsh]

Like Godwin's Law, I hereby invoke Melvyn's Law--the first to invoke the Iraq War and WMD in a thread on the relative merits of carts, loses the argument. Hard to be any more OT.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ben/Bob

All I have ever said is that Golf is a walking thinking game. Play golf you walk – my reasons its written in to 6 Centuries of the game. If suffering from medical or age problems then use a cart.

However if you use a cart to play every time or nearly every time, then all I ask is that you have the ball and basic honesty to call the game what it is Cart ball or Cart Golf. That’s it, that all I seek. My reason for that is in the excess of energy use by walking vs. riding. There is a massive saving, allowing the rider an advantage. I would welcome and have called on this site for the Governing Body to undertake an energy test, something similar to that done in the 1920 to measure energy used when lifting and setting down a golf bag. Lets prove me right or wrong, if it saves energy it’s an aid and should be banned in golf, but not Cart Ball or Cart Golf.

But you see Riders want their cake and eat it too, they want to be known as golfers but can’t be bothered to commit to the game by walking. That wrong, that stinks and its sodding lazy.

So please ride just do the honourable thing and call you game a variation of the game of golf, but it is not Golf.  

As for a scientific test, it will not happen, because if it did it would prove an aid and show the R&A as stupid for not having realised it in the first place. And if they are stupid should they be allowed to run things, make money and tinker with venues that host The Open?

Ben & Tom, don’t dismiss me until you know me or my life. You know nothing about my golf or my life, yet it seems a common thing these days that the military underestimate their opponents, be it wars in the far East or middle East – the record is not good, win most of the battles perhaps but in the end lose the war by seeking any form of extraction from the battle zones.  

[Ben Sims]

Melvyn,

I think the USGA, R&A, and PGA all realize implicitly that riding saves energy.  This is why competitive professional and amateur events require walking is it not?

And by the way, what did your last paragraph have to do with anything?  How did that topic even enter this debate?

[William_G]

Mark Johnson writes:
I really dont believe that adding carts will materially change the vibe at bandon if nothing else changes.  Bandon will never get a ton of corporate play for a few reasons--  1) it is very hard to get to   2) the other amenties (food/spa) are either average or non-existent

I don't care much about rankings, but I'm guessing they either have three or four golf courses in most top-100 lists. Is there any other area with that high of a concentration of top rank golf available to the public? The only think keeping the golf course trophy hunters away in mass is they know they need to be in good enough shape to handle the walk of the four golf courses. Give 'em cartball, and they will go in droves.

don't they still have Grandma Thayer's Meat Loaf and Redbreast Irish Pot Still Whiskey?

- I also dont believe the caddy program will die if some carts are allowed

So you just ignore the fact that carts have killed just about every other caddy program, and believe some how Bandon is different?

- Looking at 10 pages of posting, I don't think there is a single person here who said they would either visit Bandon less or play fewer rounds

I've said it twice on this thread.

- As many people have mentioned, Bandon is not being run to maximize profits right now -- specially driven by leaving tee times open to allow for replays.   Can anyone here ever remember not being able to get a replay round close to when you wanted it.

Right now there is a natural impediment to playing multiple rounds a day, you have to walk them. Open it up to all the people who can't walk 36 holes a day and you are going to see those second and third round replays get filled up and harder to come by.

Cheers,
Dan King

Call it BS, but if Bandon allows for cartball, I will not bother making the trip.
 --Dan King

well typed!

[Bill Seitz]

With regard to the term "cart ball", why is it that carts have changed the game so fundamentally that some refuse to call the game "golf", yet balls made from modern materials, 460cc titanium drivers with grapite shafts, etc. have not?  I started playing golf in probably 1982. Carts have always existed for someone my age. The technology currently sitting in my bag has not. My problem with the "purists" is a total lack of consistency. Since its inception, the game of golf has changed dramatically.  Why are certain advancements that have made the game easier OK, but others aren't?  And to that end, all of the technological advancements have done more to make the game easier (for me at least) than carts have.

[Dan King]

Bill Seitz writes:
With regard to the term "cart ball", why is it that carts have changed the game so fundamentally that some refuse to call the game "golf", yet balls made from modern materials, 460cc titanium drivers with grapite shafts, etc. have not?

Good question.

One point is that you using high-tech equipment doesn't change the game I play.  I can still go out to a course and play low-tech equipment. I have a set of hickories and there is nothing stopping me from using them. Carts have changed the courses and the economics of the game, making it so often it is impossible to walk a golf course. I'm sure some will say modern equipment has also changed the game, making courses longer and narrower, but I can adjust with my hickories. No matter how hard I try, I can't adjust to the ugly cart paths, cart golf courses, carts and cartballers.

Some of the equipment changes have been to make the equipment cheaper and last longer. There isn't enough feathers, gutty or hickory for all of us to play balls or clubs made with those. Most of the changes in my life with the ball was to make them last longer. It has also resulted with them flying farther and straighter, but not by much when you hit them with 100 year old clubs.

I've said I'm not adverse to change. I'm responding to this on a computer over a world-wide network of computers. But change should be for a reason.  I like solutions to have a problem they address.  Carts were intended to make the game still accessible for those with disabilities, but now it has seriously damaged the courses and the price hasn't been worth it, IMHO.

Cheers,
Dan King

Sports gear purchases are about all that's keeping the fragile U.S. economy alive, and you'd have to get into America's Cup yachting or cross-country airplane racing to find a sport that needs more gear than golf.
 --P.J. O'Rourke

[Brent Hutto]

Many things about golf have changed in the last couple hundred years. Riding instead of walking is at least as big a change as any of the others you might care to mention. Not saying it's the only change. But it's a very, very large change.

And if I live to play golf as long as Gene Sarazen did, then within my lifetime I'm convinced walking to play golf with be extinct or else so "oddball" that special arrangements will be needed in order to do it.

I'm sure I can live and play golf quite happily without hitting a persimmon driver. I'm almost equally sure I can not play golf happily without walking the course.

Look at it this way, anyone who likes is free to tee it up tomorrow with clubs from 1903. Yet almost nobody will be doing so.  Yet so many people choose not to use the putative "improvement" represented by golf carts that courses all over the country forbid golfers from walking the course purely to force the use of the carts they do not want. Ask yourself which is a genuine improvement and which is not, modern equipment or riding in a golf cart.

[Ben Sims]

Carts have changed the courses and the economics of the game, making it so often it is impossible to walk a golf course.

Dan,

Would you just prefer that there wasn't a course then?  

This is the most prevalent problem I have with the cart purists.  They decry courses that don't allow walking, they bemoan pace of play, they talk about consolations in design that have watered down golf architecture.  However, what they never consider is the absolute selfishness that their viewpoints espouse.  Golf would look totally different--and I think much smaller--than it does today in the US if the cart were outlawed.  Tens of thousands of people would not have a job in golf and possibly millions of people would not be consistently exposed to golf without carts.  It's a social activity.  People in this nation prefer their entertainment to be easy going--particularly if it is 85+ degrees outside.  We are the minority here.  I have shown some of these cart threads to once a week golfers--but not "cognoscenti"--and they laugh their asses off at us.  

Let me be very clear however.  My most favorite courses are easily walkable with tees close to greens; courses with rhythm and flow.  Carts are certainly a detractor to these things I value greatly in golf design.  

I will never understand why the cart purists use the "required carts" argument in this debate.  Go play somewhere else.  For every one course that requires carts, probably 30 allow walking.  

Lastly Dan, just a question.  Have you ever played a course that had carts in which the designer paid extra attention to hiding cart paths and making the walkers have the best routing from green to tee, etc.?

PS--Dan, you should have Melvyn pay you to speak for him.  You are way better at this and much more fun to talk to than he is.     Sorry Mel. 

[Brent Hutto]

You obviously play golf in a different part of the country than Dan or myself if you think 29 out of 30 courses allow walking.

And just a friendly reminder before the thread goes yet again afield. This thread was not supposed to be about "banning carts". It was simply examining the idea that there is an affirmative value to the existence of one particular resort with four courses on which carts are not allowed outside exceptions on medical grounds.

Yes, there is value. Such a course is rare. Getting rarer every day. And the experience is qualitatively different than one on which the majority of golfers are riding on carts, there are carts every goddamn direction you look, the fairways and roughs are beaten down to nothing by the constant cart traffic and--almost inevitably--there are restrictions on when you are allowed to walk the course.

Compared to all that, which is absolutely the bog standard norm among USA golf courses I personally have visited, having one measly little resort as an oasis for walking golf is a good thing to an extent that is almost exaggeration-proof. To golfers who walk, that is.

Nobody's going to take your cart away where ever you are used to riding in it. We're just registering our strongest possible support for having this one, lone exception to the ugly and senseless norm that prevails nearly everywhere else in this country. It is one of the very best things about Bandon to more people than some of you guys seem capable of imagining.

[Ben Sims]

I like your response.  And I am very much in the camp that believes that Bandon should remain as is with regards to cart use.  I agree that a medical note should be the only way you're riding there.  And then it must be with a forecaddie.  

Brent,

Allow me to quote myself from post #227.  Bandon is doing the right thing.  You're not going to find a much stronger proponent for anything Bandon Dunes Golf Resort wishes to do than me.  Bandon and Ballyneal are two of my favorite places on the planet. 

But the issue to me is this.  Just because Bandon is doing it right does not mean that everyone else is doing it wrong.  The freedom of choice is imperative for many golf courses in this country.  The puritanical and stiff viewpoint that carts are destroying golf is just too far off to one side to be realistic in my opinion.  This should be a thread arguing why Bandon is special and should stay as is and not a 10 page cart-bashing fest that further serves to pigeonhole this website against mainstream golf. 

PS--I could call any course in San Antonio tomorrow, public or private, and be allowed to walk. 

[Melvyn Morrow]

Making golf easy or easier seems to me to convey at a stroke a total defeatist attitude. I do not understand why anyone plays golf if they need the game to be made easy. The whole point of the game is the challenge and one’s attempt meet if face on.

As for the equipment, my opinion has not changed, I have always said that I am pro technology but it must be based upon consistency and not improvement in the ability to make the ball travel further than the club it is replacing. The game of golf finally achieved a good consistency by the turn of the 20th Century with the Gutty being the tool to allow clubs to be fully developed for the game. With the Haskell ball the game was finally complete as the Gutty had the problem of shattering. Use whatever material and technology you want but not at the advantage of always improving ones distance, because that is not worthy of a golfer, he should strive to let skill and experience achieve distance improvement, but never through the equipment.

Carts are there to take the stress & strain, yet it is that simple fact that is so part of the game. Stress and strain equates to the game, it measures the golfer, it allows them to play the game, to understand the course, terrain, contours while the body warms up and muscles relax by the steady walking pace, the lungs increase the oxygen levels in the body/brain freeing the golfer to face the actual physical and mental challenge that is golf. Take a cart and you are a Lounge Potato, add distance aids then where is that interactivity between body and mind.

I am not against technology, but I am against anything that dulls the game, that takes the thought process away from the golfer, that strips the golfer of the feeling of the land by walking and feeling and see the contours. How can a golfer function correctly without that input, he can’t hence the reliance upon the cart and distance aids.

Golf is and always will be a challenge, cart ball and using distance aids removed over 50% of the fun and enjoyment the game offers a golfer, produces a lazy golfer not only in legs but mind department, ultimately relying on technology to improve his score as skill levels deteriorate thanks to inactivity.

Some understandably have never know golf without distance aids or carts, well I have and the game is IMHO way more fun and satisfying playing golf through your own abilities (whatever levels that may be). The thrill and satisfaction of Walking 36 Holes in a day, of taking every stroke through the information gained while walking and looking and not reliant on outside help to get around or select the right club is the reason why the game was so successful and went worldwide.

Today we seem to want to dumb down the game, no walking courses, artificial aids, technology governing the distance the ball travels, less penal courses and still we look for it being easier. I fear too many are trying golf and finding it just too tough, so instead of finding something else they dumb down the game to make themselves look good by doing so have destroyed the very thing that made the game so great in the early days.

Worst of all our governing bodies have not shown the balls to protect the game which is I believe their core duty IMHO. 

[Dan King]

Ben Sims writes:
Would you just prefer that there wasn't a course then?

Bandon?  If it was cartball courses I probably wouldn't care either way.

This is the most prevalent problem I have with the cart purists.  They decry courses that don't allow walking, they bemoan pace of play, they talk about consolations in design that have watered down golf architecture.  However, what they never consider is the absolute selfishness that their viewpoints espouse.

Every sport could be opened up to make it more inclusive. How come the rules of basketball aren't changed to compensate for the handicapped? Shouldn't swimming and track put much less emphasis on speed so slow people could better compete?

With the Casey Martin thing: I remember I think it was Tim Herron who said something like, Part of what makes golf such a special sport is that we can allow someone like Martin to compete. That changed my mind about Martin. I think it is great that people with all sorts of disability can play golf. I like that minimal changes need to be made to allow their inclusion, but with carts -- not because of the disabled --  the game has changed because of them, and not for the better.

Yes I am selfish.  I want the game I love not to be Americanized. Damn straight I am selfish. Think of all the things you love and how much you would rather not see them change. You ever considered how selfish that is?

Golf would look totally different--and I think much smaller--than it does today in the US if the cart were outlawed.

I'm not in the golf business. I have no real desire to see the game grow. Should I?

Tens of thousands of people would not have a job in golf and possibly millions of people would not be consistently exposed to golf without carts.

All these people who love cartgolf, would they sit at home twiddling their thumbs?  Or would they do some other activity that would employ tens of thousands of people?

I don't see how millions of people exposed to cartball makes my life better.

I have shown some of these cart threads to once a week golfers--but not "cognoscenti"--and they laugh their asses off at us.  

My feeling are hurt.  

Lastly Dan, just a question.  Have you ever played a course that had carts in which the designer paid extra attention to hiding cart paths and making the walkers have the best routing from green to tee, etc.?

Yes I have. And I do appreciate it.  But they have been much less successful hiding the carts, cartballers and the slow play cartballers bring.

Cheers,
Dan King

P.S. I just realized I'm not hurt. People I don't know have been laughing their ass off about me for years. I'm immune.

You can golf first thing in the morning. I've noticed for men my age, more and more of the important things happen at that time of the day: golf, heart attacks, delivery of the Wall Street Journal, and intermittently -- erections and bowel movements.
 --P.J. O'Rourke

[Ben Sims]

Dan,

Solid points, all of them.  I don't agree with the viewpoint that just because you like something, then that activity is at its perigee and any departure from that paradigm is the end of your pastime as you know it.  Conversely, I don't like the idea of ATV's on hiking trails in Nat'l Parks.  God that is depressing just to think about.  So in some ways I agree with you, others I don't.

In any case, the market has spoken on golf.  Carts are popular and account for a bit more than half of the rounds in the US.  Good or bad, that is where golf sits now.  I for one think there is a tremendous flexibility in the game right now.  Want a walking only, no slope rating, match play golf course with all fescue greens?  That place exists.  So does the place that is cart only with multimillion dollar cart paths.  We have courses that are single row irrigation, some that have 1000+ heads.  Desert golf, links golf, cart golf, parkland, heathland, it's all there!  

Golf needs financial help right now, sure.  But can you name a time in the history of the game where there was more variety?  Find your niche and roll around like a pig in mud.  Me?  I have my own ideas of what I would do given the chance to design, build or manage a golf course.  I follow the minimalist school of design and the Mahaffey school of maintenance.  But I also love golf and enjoy being a chameleon that can be happy and blend in on any course.  

[Dan King]

Ben Sims writes:
I don't agree with the viewpoint that just because you like something, then that activity is at its perigee and any departure from that paradigm is the end of your pastime as you know it.

I don't think I ever said golf should not change. I love that golf has become a much more international game. I love that golf has in general figured out how to be more exclusionary, with women, minorities and children more involved in golf than in the past. There is much to love about golf. I want to see positive changes rather than negative changes, and carts have mostly brought negative changes.

Conversely, I don't like the idea of ATV's on hiking trails in Nat'l Parks.  God that is depressing just to think about.  So in some ways I agree with you, others I don't.

I have a new analogy.  ATV's on hiking trails is exactly like carts on golf courses.  How can you deny the advantage an ATV can give a disabled person in trying to get to the same place as you go on foot. But widespread use of ATVs will ruin the hike for those that still like to get to their destination on foot.

Thanks.

In any case, the market has spoken on golf.

I agree, and have conceded defeat numerous times. I am no longer trying to rid the world of cartgolf. In the past I had to make the yearly trip to Scotland or Ireland to experience the type of golf I love. Now I just have to drive 350 miles north. I worry when people talk about turning Bandon into yet another American golf resort  -- probably very similar to how you would feel if National Parks were opened up to unlimited ATVs.

Cheers,
Dan King

The glorious thing is that thousands of golfers, in park land, on windy downs, in gorse, in heather, by the many-sounding sea, enjoy their imbecilities, revel in their infirmities, and from failure itself draw that final victory - the triumph of hope.
  --R.C. Robertson-Glasgow

[Sam Morrow]

I try to be civil but I'm sick and fucking tired of the cart argument and the inclusion of nonexistent WMD's and such. What does that have to do with anything?

[Dan King]

I'm sick  and fucking tired of people saying (or typing) they are sick and fucking tired.

Cheers,
Dan King
Mainly just responding to include this quote:

I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.
 --Graham Chapman

[Sam Morrow]

I'm sick  and fucking tired of people saying they are sick and fucking tired.

Cheers,
Dan King
Mainly just responding to include this quote:

I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.
 --Graham Chapman

I think I'm the first to say it. Be careful, that Chapman guy had the gay.

[Dan King]

Sam Morrow writes:
I think I'm the first to say it. Be careful, that Chapman guy had the gay.

That's exactly what made him so fabulous.

His nickname was also Gray. Makes you think!

Cheers,
Dan King

Graham Chapman, co-author of the "Parrot Sketch", is no more. He has ceased to be. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's kicked the bucket, hopped the twig, bit the dust, snuffed it, breathed his last, and gone to meet the great Head of Light Entertainment in the sky. And I guess that we're all thinking how sad it is that a man of such talent, of such capability for kindness, of such unusual intelligence, should now so suddenly be spirited away at the age of only forty-eight, before he'd achieved many of the things of which he was capable, and before he'd had enough fun. Well, I feel that I should say: nonsense. Good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard, I hope he fries. And the reason I feel I should say this is he would never forgive me if I didn't, if I threw away this glorious opportunity to shock you all on his behalf. Anything for him but mindless good taste.
 --John Cleese at the memorial for Graham Chapman

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