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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #200 on: May 31, 2012, 08:56:41 PM »

If you call yourself a Golfer then you have no business riding or using outside aids.

Long may Bandon ban the cart for able bodied players, these Judas's of the golfing world.  :P



Proof positive, you know you're wrong when Mel comes out on your side! ;D
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #201 on: May 31, 2012, 10:22:27 PM »
Melvin, I am a golfer and have been since age 10 and will be till they put me 6 feet under.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #202 on: May 31, 2012, 10:30:35 PM »
Remember guys that Mike Kaiser is not just a good businessman but a good person and a golfer. Terry confirmed it but I could have sworn I had this conversation on carts for medically challenged with Mike over breakfast a few years ago. He also overruled Kemper to keep much of the afternoon open for 2nd plays rather than presell them at full retail. He is much less rigid and a true golfer in every sense of the word. Bandon is not just him and his vision for golf, but is a wonderful taste of Oregon culture as well.

Sam Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #203 on: May 31, 2012, 11:05:45 PM »
I gotta ask Melvyn on this one, God forbid you were to get sick and couldn't walk the course but riding would give you a chance to still play. Are you saying you wouldn't? My Dad enjoyed walking the course with me but as cancer was destroying his body some of the most joy he had the last year or so of his life was riding in a cart with me. If that means we aren't golfers then this game really is lost.

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #204 on: May 31, 2012, 11:27:31 PM »
I gotta ask Melvyn on this one, God forbid you were to get sick and couldn't walk the course but riding would give you a chance to still play. Are you saying you wouldn't? My Dad enjoyed walking the course with me but as cancer was destroying his body some of the most joy he had the last year or so of his life was riding in a cart with me. If that means we aren't golfers then this game really is lost.

Agreed Sam.  My father also suffered from cancer that ultimately, after only 11 months, did him in.  He was an excellent player who would have loved Bandon but would have had to ride at any time during that span.  I think Melvyn is just being difficult refusing to put himself in another's shoes.  That said, Keiser does it exactly right allowing folks who literally can't walk a round to have a cart.  Having caddied there, I would say that if at all possible - like Mac Plumart - one will get the best experience walking with a caddie.

Cheers

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #205 on: May 31, 2012, 11:28:47 PM »
Tim Leahy writes:
Proof positive, you know you're wrong when Mel comes out on your side!

I hadn't thought of impeccable logic like that. I've changed my mind. They should pave over the whole resort and have golf cart races.

Sam Morrow writes:
I gotta ask Melvyn on this one, God forbid you were to get sick and couldn't walk the course but riding would give you a chance to still play.

I'm not speaking for Melvyn.  He is capable of speaking up for himself.  However, some of us believe the game is bigger than the individual. If I can no longer walk a golf course, I will be sad.  I might occasionally play cartball -- hard to tell what the future holds -- but I'm fairly sure I would never try to get a course to become cartball just so I can play there.

I'm sure I would never love cartball like I love golf.

I also see a significant difference between a course having carts for those that truly need them and going cartball.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
He who has the fastest golf cart never has a bad lie.
 --Mickey Mantle

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #206 on: May 31, 2012, 11:32:35 PM »

If you call yourself a Golfer then you have no business riding or using outside aids.

Long may Bandon ban the cart for able bodied players, these Judas's of the golfing world.  :P



Melvyn,

I assume you have no graphite (or steel) shafts in your bag, use leather grips, have real "woods", and play a wound ball, nay, a featherie that you craft in your shop?

Cheers
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 11:50:44 PM by Will Lozier »

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #207 on: May 31, 2012, 11:47:18 PM »
Melvyn doesn't play golf, which makes it fairly easy for him to live up to the extremist position he holds in regards to most aspects of the game.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #208 on: May 31, 2012, 11:58:28 PM »
I gotta ask Melvyn on this one, God forbid you were to get sick and couldn't walk the course but riding would give you a chance to still play. Are you saying you wouldn't? My Dad enjoyed walking the course with me but as cancer was destroying his body some of the most joy he had the last year or so of his life was riding in a cart with me. If that means we aren't golfers then this game really is lost.

Sam,

I am not sure of this but Melvyn does have health problems and is unable to walk to play golf. I feel very sorry for him and wish that he could overcome his prejudice. Dan King and Melvyn have their  points of view and should be lauded for their stand. However, I cannot for the life of me think of refusing to play golf because the use of a cart was a required condition of play.

I guess I must be classified as not a golfing enthusiast..

Bob


« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 01:15:43 PM by Bob_Huntley »

Sam Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #209 on: June 01, 2012, 12:07:31 AM »
I gotta ask Melvyn on this one, God forbid you were to get sick and couldn't walk the course but riding would give you a chance to still play. Are you saying you wouldn't? My Dad enjoyed walking the course with me but as cancer was destroying his body some of the most joy he had the last year or so of his life was riding in a cart with me. If that means we aren't golfers then this game really is lost.

Sam,

I am not sure of this but Melvyn does have health problems and is unable to walk to play golf. I feel very sorry for him and wish that he could overcome his predudice. Dan King and Melvyn have their  points of view and should be lauded for their stand. However, I cannot for the life of me think of refusing to play golf because the use of a cart was a required condition of play.

I guess I must be classified as not a golfing enthusiast..

Bob




You and I must be in the same boat. If Melvyn has a health problem that keeps him from walking the course I would tell him to hop in a cart and enjoy a round. That's just me.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #210 on: June 01, 2012, 12:13:19 AM »
Melvyn has stated many times on this board that he has health issues and does not play anymore, as he refuses to take the cart that might enable him to play.

I give him credit for adhering to his principles, even if he expresses them a bit incessantly.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #211 on: June 01, 2012, 12:27:10 AM »
Bob_Huntley writes:
Dan King and Melvyn have their  points of view and should be lauded for their stand. However, I cannot for the life of me think of refusing to play golf because the use of a cart was a required condition of play.

I'm not all that stringent. I've been known to play cartball now and then. Anytime I can play a round of golf with Mr. Huntley I would gladly jump in the cart. My point from the beginning is I like the way Bandon handles carts, and I see no reason at all they should change their policy.

Sam Morrow writes:
You and I must be in the same boat. If Melvyn has a health problem that keeps him from walking the course I would tell him to hop in a cart and enjoy a round. That's just me.

I hope you will understand when he says he would rather not?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
From its earliest beginnings, golf has been a gentleman's game - to be played as much for the sake of the game as for the contest.
 --Tony Lema

Brent Hutto

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #212 on: June 01, 2012, 06:04:46 AM »
I can't really say with certainty how I'd feel in a What-If scenario but I know right now golf that doesn't involve walking the course does not "do it for me" from a playing perspective. I play on the order of 100 rounds per year, almost like an addiction to playing, and would play more if time allowed. No way I would find it that engaging and addicting an activity if it were the kind of golf played from a cart, there just isn't the same flow and sense of freedom to it.

My guess is if I could only play by riding I'd be one of the people, probably a million of them out there, who play half a dozen rounds a year when some social opportunity presents itself. There's a lot worse places to be than on a golf course with one or several friends and I can see the attraction. I even play a round or two like that myself from time to time. But in all honesty I can't imagine leaving work and trying to squeeze nine holes in before dark (out of sheer haven't-played-golf-this-week withdrawal) if it were riding-golf. My true fascination is with the pace and rhythm of walking briskly on short-clipped turf with a swing of the club every couple minutes along the way.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2012, 09:16:59 AM »
Brent,
We are a lot alike; I hate getting in a golf cart.  I'm one of the few players at my club that always walk, even on the hottest Georgia summer day, and even to the detriment of my game when I walk for a third or fourth day in a row.  I average 125 rounds a year and generally the only ones I ride are when it is mandatory (Myrtle Beach or Scottsdale, for instance) or for some social reason.  I walk because I like being fit, because I like the game better that way, and because I hate paying for a cart.

But I'm 60 now, and when the day comes (as it SURELY will!) that riding a cart is the only way that I can play a lot of golf, I will ride happily, be that temporary or permanent.  I love playing golf with my buddies.  I love a golf trip.  I love throwing in $20 for the points game at the club, and sharing a pitcher afterwards.  I love the feel of a well-struck shot.  I love taking new golf balls out of the sleeve and marking them.  I even love the sound that my clubs make as they come in and out of the bag.  And on and on.  To give up all that golf gives me because of a what is (at least in my mind) a meaningless distinction between walking and not walking is just not thinkable.  Life will assuredly be a bit poorer for being unable to walk the course, but not nearly as much poorer as it would be without the beauty of the game of golf itself.

It does my soul good when Tiger Bernhardt or Bob Huntley or Patrick Mucci write with passion about the meaning of continuing to be able to play the game, however that is made possible.  I've never met any of those gentlemen, but I know to a certainty that they are great stewards of our game; their passion for golf is the same passion that I feel, whether I am walking or riding.  I just love to play the game. 
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Sam Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2012, 01:04:44 PM »
Bob_Huntley writes:
Dan King and Melvyn have their  points of view and should be lauded for their stand. However, I cannot for the life of me think of refusing to play golf because the use of a cart was a required condition of play.

I'm not all that stringent. I've been known to play cartball now and then. Anytime I can play a round of golf with Mr. Huntley I would gladly jump in the cart. My point from the beginning is I like the way Bandon handles carts, and I see no reason at all they should change their policy.

Sam Morrow writes:
You and I must be in the same boat. If Melvyn has a health problem that keeps him from walking the course I would tell him to hop in a cart and enjoy a round. That's just me.

I hope you will understand when he says he would rather not?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
From its earliest beginnings, golf has been a gentleman's game - to be played as much for the sake of the game as for the contest.
 --Tony Lema


Of course I would understand if he would rather not but then he and others must respect those who would ride in that case. It's a two way street.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2012, 02:03:25 PM »

Sam

Its Golf we are talking about and play what’s this with the two way street? 

Perhaps it’s my blood line with all those great and famous golfers and golf course designers that through their actions we have a game and golf courses worthy of great merit. Perhaps through their game golf went global through their interactions. Whatever, it has been passed down to me that golf is a game played alone, or with friends or strangers, for simple joy, entertainment or money. The purpose is to accept the tests and challenges placed before the golfer by God, Nature and the Hand of Man. The game from the start was one of walking and thinking while navigating the course with all its traps and natural/manmade obstacles, to do so on your own ability. The rich being able to have a club carrier, the poorer carried their own limited set of clubs.

Throughout all my searches and research I have never come across the game not being a walking game or others doing the thinking for the golfer. I suppose the guys back then realised that if they were to embrace the game they had to do it their way i.e. walk and think their game through, selecting the correct clubs to gain the best distance before the little ball went into the Hole.

Golf is a game of tradition, it has its own rules of conduct, it was and is a way of life. To be known as a golfer you knew that it would have an effect upon not just you but your wife and family, not to mention your social activities. Being a golfer you commit to that knowing that it is the consequence
of your own actions. The game engulfs you and all the ones you love.

If you have lived your life as a golfer, accepted it is your game why would you want to play another variation of the game that in the past has left you feeling it’s a betrayal of everything you believe in  - that is in your golfing life. For me and many others, Golf is not a cart assisted game. That’s for the lazy, the non-committed, the part timers who care not a fig for the game, its traditions or that the game is a test of the individuals character, in that his/her willingness to face the tests and challenges that defines golf as a game.

So once you can’t walk far, you expect me to abandon all that I hold dear and true for something I have nothing but contempt for as it IMHO riding is not playing golf as its shows zero commitment let alone interest in a game called Golf.

I will no ride to play golf, it simply is not golf if you ride, you have removed a major part of the intercourse with the land a golfer gets when walking. So no, no cart for me, I will stop playing until my problem is cured. I may use a cart in future to get about but not to play golf.

Nor will I ride with you as you do not play the same game as me and quite frankly I am not interested in Cart Balling.

Melvyn

PS I have played golf in many parts of the world, mainly the Tropics from Brazil, Jamaica, Nigeria India and places like Portugal & Spain. Walking never even considered riding, it’s just not the done thing if you are a Golfer – then again it’s in my bloodline and do you expect me to betray the likes of Old or Young Tom, Charlie Hunter, James Hunter, George & Jack Morris and more besides who went to America up course in Mobile Darien. 

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2012, 05:40:26 PM »
I know, I know, I know...Melvyn repeats himself, appears overly dogmatic, etc, etc, etc...but

DAMN his last post is motivating to me.  Kudos and respect Melvyn.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 07:11:05 PM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #217 on: June 01, 2012, 10:21:42 PM »
Of course the reason why you don't see anything about carts when researching the game's beginning is because, well, they didn't have them.

Melvyn's post is akin to saying you can't watch TV because it isn't found in the bible.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #218 on: June 01, 2012, 11:49:30 PM »
JC Jones writes:
Of course the reason why you don't see anything about carts when researching the game's beginning is because, well, they didn't have them.

That's right, the only way to ever get around before the genius of America created golf carts was by foot.





Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
What earthly good is golf? Life is stern and life is earnest. We live in a practical age. All around us we see foreign competition making itself unpleasant. And we spend our time playing golf? What do we get out of it? Is golf any use? That's what I'm asking you. Can you name me a single case where devotion to this pestilential pastime has done a man any practical good?
  --P.G. Wodehouse

Sam Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #219 on: June 02, 2012, 12:20:41 AM »
Many things have changed, heck 100 years ago people got polio often, heck that President with the ugly wife had polio. Now you get a shot when you're a kid. Heck 100 years ago women often died in childbirth, now it almost never happens (atleast in the developed world).

I think Tiger and Huntley are still golfers. If he's not a golfer anymore I'm going to ask Tiger if I can borrow his clubs.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #220 on: June 02, 2012, 12:30:59 AM »
Melvyn's post is akin to saying you can't watch TV because it isn't found in the bible.

 ;D ;D ;D


EDIT...

That picture of Gene Sarazen on a mule is hilarious!!!

« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 12:56:04 AM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #221 on: June 02, 2012, 01:47:37 PM »
In post numbered 215, Melvyn makes the following observation."

"So once you can’t walk far, you expect me to abandon all that I hold dear and true for something I have nothing but contempt for as it IMHO riding is not playing golf as its shows zero commitment let alone interest in a game called Golf."

Melvyn,


Contempt for the action and the perpetrator? Come now, we are talking about a game. It is all very well for you to claim that your ancestry demands this mortification, if so, you might try wearing a cilice, it would concentrate the mind wonderfully. As an aside I walked until I was eighty and then resorted to cart use because I loved the game. What I played thereafter might not be seen as such by you, but I played by the rules and never in any sort of competition. Not only that but my love for the game certainly helped me get out of a hospital bed.   

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #222 on: June 02, 2012, 02:21:25 PM »
Mac,

Motivating in what way?  I only ask because I get goosebumps as an American when I read President Thomas Jefferson say something like, "I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master."
But then I wonder if he asked one of his servants/slaves for another cup of tea while he penned something so wonderful.  Being such a homer for what our ancestors and forefathers espoused has a limit, you know?

Yes, motivating as Melvyn's speech can be at times, it is exclusionary and fanatical.  If Melvyn truly loved the game, he would understand that such an outlook is no better for the future of golf than very carts/cartball courses he decries.  
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:25:47 PM by Ben Sims »

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #223 on: June 02, 2012, 02:42:55 PM »
Ben Sims writes:
Yes, motivating as Melvyn's speech can be at times, it is exclusionary and fanatical.  If Melvyn truly loved the game, he would understand that such an outlook is no better for the future of golf than very carts/cartball courses he decries. 

I'm not much of a fan of the future of golf. Many of the changes I have seen have been for the detriment of golf. I'm not saying all changes, but most of the ones in my lifetime have hurt, not helped golf. If I were King of Golf I would say screw the future, I prefer the past. But I'm not King of Golf and I realize I am in a minority and have learned to adjust to my minority status.

I tend to agree with Melvyn more than I disagree. To me there is a certain amount of standard of what golf is. If it is just about the shots, then it can be done on a simulator, at the driving range, or in some sort of faux golf course. It is much more than just the shots. I think and important part of golf is that it is out in nature.  Carts, cart paths and cartballers take away from that feeling of nature.

I'm all for innovation. I think carts were an excellent advancement in golf, allowing people who could not play otherwise to play a close facsimile of the game. The problem is they have taken over golf, and now people think it is just plain silly to think of golf as a walking game. Innovation didn't help the game, it hurt it.  Same with these goofy devices to measure distance. Golf was suppose to be a nice mix between the mental and the physical. But the folks that prefer golf as mostly a physical game have taken over and are busy downplaying the mental aspect of golf.

There isn't much I can do about any of this. The people who want to turn golf into primarily a physical game have won. Carts and distance aids are not going away. But that doesn't mean I need to like it. That doesn't mean when golfers on here want to change one of the few places in America where carts are relegated to the disabled I should just shut up and accept it.

If you like cartball you have almost every golf course in America to choose from. If I want to get away from cartball, I used to have to go overseas. Now I have a little corner of Oregon where I can still play golf and not deal with cartball. Despite walkers being in the minority, we have this one little niche market where we can get away from the domination of cartball and still enjoy nature. But as this thread shows, there are plenty of people want to see that end.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the courses and rob us of our exercise. I don't think evolution is goin' ahead so much as just goin' along breedin' more unfitness every day.
 --Julian Lang

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?
« Reply #224 on: June 02, 2012, 03:15:26 PM »

Ben
Fanatical is going to war because of non-existing WMD, yet tell your people they could be ready to deploy in 15 minutes. Fanatical is going to war with no policy as what to do if you win. What about trying to win the hearts and minds of the people, by repairing the utilities destroyed by you aircraft to show them you care and that you are committed – ops there that’s word that you can’t quite get your head around, it’s as scarce as the illusive WMD’s. 

Bob
Perhaps I have something called commitment, to the game, its traditions and believe that playing golf is only possible if one walks. Commitment to get off my backside and play the traditional game. Commitment to take a lot of crap from those who it seems have very little commitment.

It’s just a game so why not play it the way it has been played for centuries, why change a game that is all about testing the golfer. Why fall at the first hurdle, is walking just that bridge too far for the modern player too busy being lazy, using carts and outside aids all because he/she has no commitment to themselves or the game.

Play golf then do so, don’t fart about on a cart using toys to work out your game for you. Be Men rise to the challenge and walk while thinking your game or is that just too difficult for many of the modern players – trying to do two things at the same time.


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