[Garland Bayley]

Dan.. your comments are now approaching absurdity. You're comparing access to an elite club with getting a cart at a public course.  Please.... I mentioned Baltusrol to show my roots.  There is NO comparison between a private club like Baltusrol and Bandon.  Of course you jump thru hoops to access an exclusive club.  I would never expect anyhthing less. Why tho should the disabled have to jump thru hoops to access a cart at a public course???  Your comments are beyond ridiculous....and yes, you are able to walk 18.  Walking 36 was tough.  Of course you should walk...do you have no understanding for those who can't??

Wonder who's being absurd. Do they play golf at Baltusrol? I have to wonder why those that have access to Baltusrol would worry much about not having access to Bandon due to infirmaries. Dan certainly has an infirmary when it comes to playing Baltusrol.

[William_G]

Terry,

the game of golf is refreshingly absolute, your are either in the hole or not, no mediation required.


Sam and Sean,

Hilarious!!!!!!!! maybe they'll build that thing someday, and maybe another.

How about a muni too south of of town.

Or just play nine holes at Bandon, or 7 at Pacific.


Pete,

+1


Garland,

I'm glad we agree on something.


Mac,

Total admiration and empathy.


Casey Martin,

You may ride a cart.

thanks

[Bill_McBride]

Walking is great. Walking is better. Walking is more true to the roots of the game.

Riding is fun. Riding is pleasant. Riding is easier.

How about a resort that requires walking yet ALLOWS riding?  Is there not an available middle ground or are we just going to rail like absolutists?

Terry, in the America of today, I fear that allowing carts will, like Gresham's Law, eventually mean most ride.  I don't know how you REQUIRE walking but ALLOW carts.  I love the fact that everybody walks at Bandon, although I am personally having a harder time walking that second 18. 

[Terry Lavin]

Bill,

I don't know either, but I postulated that one could only ride in the afternoon if one walked in the morning, excluding the medical crew.

I have no real axe to grind here, just stirring the pot.

[Cliff Hamm]

Is it me or does Bandon not have any information about what is required to get a cart on their site?  If explicit information is not provided why not?

[Dan King]

Cliff Hamm writes:
Perhaps addressing the issue without analogies

I'd prefer you tell me all the rules up front. But I have tacked up "No Analogies when arguing with Cliff Hamm" on my bulletin board. Let me know if some other restriction comes up.

I assume you continue to believe that if you are not totally out of shape, do not carry too many clubs, do not require a caddy, but cannot walk a course you should not be allowed access?  BTW not providing a cart equates to no access

I'd check with the course to see what it takes to use one of their rare carts. I have no idea what they require.  But since you don't want to do any pre-arranging then, yes, for you, no access to Bandon Dunes resort.  

Cheers,
Dan King

Oh golf is for smellin' heather and cut grass and walkin fast across the countryside and feelin' the wind and watchin' the sun go down and seein' yer friends hit good shots and hittin' some yerself. It's love and feelin' the splendor o' the good world.
 --Agatha McNaughton (Golf in the Kingdom)

[William_G]

Bill,

I don't know either, but I postulated that one could only ride in the afternoon if one walked in the morning, excluding the medical crew.

I have no real axe to grind here, just stirring the pot.

Are you Slytherin or Gryffindor?

Love the caddy program at Bandon!

Just think of some of those guys double bagging it for 36, LOL.

Love Bandon as it is, no matter how many holes I could play, but that's just me.

Crazy huh?

thanks

[Terry Lavin]

Gray,

Just total admiration and empathy.   

[Cliff Hamm]

Cliff Hamm writes:
Perhaps addressing the issue without analogies

I'd prefer you tell me all the rules up front. But I have tacked up "No Analogies when arguing with Cliff Hamm" on my bulletin board. Let me know if some other restriction comes up.

I assume you continue to believe that if you are not totally out of shape, do not carry too many clubs, do not require a caddy, but cannot walk a course you should not be allowed access?  BTW not providing a cart equates to no access

I'd check with the course to see what it takes to use one of their rare carts. I have no idea what they require.  But since you don't want to do any pre-arranging then, yes, for you, no access to Bandon Dunes resort.  

Cheers,
Dan King

Oh golf is for smellin' heather and cut grass and walkin fast across the countryside and feelin' the wind and watchin' the sun go down and seein' yer friends hit good shots and hittin' some yerself. It's love and feelin' the splendor o' the good world.
 --Agatha McNaughton (Golf in the Kingdom)

Another rule you may want to use is that if you're going to quote me use the WHOLE quote:

Perhaps addressing the issue without analogies/changing the topic would be a prudent course of action

[Dan Herrmann]

PS  - One of my favorite golf hats is the official Bandon Dunes "Looper" hat.

PPS - If you can't walk 36, play in the morning and discover the SW Oregon area.  Last time I was there, we played 36, 18, 36.   On that 18 day, we played early, drove 1 hour south to Gold Beach and took the jet boat ride up the Rogue River.

Loved the golf, but I can recall everything about that trip - the seals, the bear, the elk, the bald eagles, the otters, the scenery, etc..  There really is more to Oregon than Bandon!

[Brent Hutto]

So there should not be one resort or presumably even one solitary golf course in the USA which is designed, operated and maintained entirely to provide the best experience to golfers who are walking. That's what I'm hearing. Even if they provide a cart to anyone who requires one for medical reasons. That's not enough. Every last sod who wants to play that course with his ass in a golf cart must be allowed to do so, is that the position?

If as a result the place is soon overrun with perfectly able-bodied young and middle-aged golfers driving carts. Even if the result is a far poorer experience for those who do want to walk. Even if the result is poorer turf condition. It doesn't matter. Indulging anyone and everyone who for any reason wants to drive a golf cart around the course is the priority that trumps all other concerns.

And then if someone happens to point out what an extreme and intolerant point of view this is and what the completely predictable results will be, borne out by the clear evidence of every other course in the country over these past few decades, then that person is a Nazi who hates disabled people and wants sick old men to be barred from golf. Is that the official line?

[Tim_Weiman]

Dan King:

I very much support the perspective you expressed in this thread, especially your point about carts being available at 99% of the places you can play golf, but still the cart crowd insists it should be 100%.

[William_G]

Gray,

Just total admiration and empathy.   

hahaha

[Terry Lavin]

Brent:

I don't know what thread you're reading, but the overall tenor here is that it would be a mistake to change the policy at Bandon.

Which doesn't surprise me, given the people who typically post on gca. I had thought the suggestion would be viewed as heresy. Mike Keiser probably feels the same way. This is just anecdotal, amateur research.

[Cliff Hamm]

If any or my responses have implied that carts should be allowed for everyone I apologize.  That was not my intent.

I do, however, have sensitivity for those with disabilities and feel they should have access.  Such access should not require 2 months notice or x rays.

Middle aged folks and able bodied young men can and should walk.  I was once one of them and that was not that long ago. Back then I could not have imagined playing golf anyway but walking and carrying.

BUT life changes.  Carts should be available for those that need them.  There are many grey areas.  The folks with arthritis who are not technically disabled, but really can't walk 6 miles. Etc. etc.  

That is my only point.  If you can walk you should and must.  If you can't carts should be available without  too much hassle.


Tim... I find it insulting that you call it the cart crowd.  It is the unable to walk crowd.  One day you will hopefully realize the difference.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I do not expect most on here to say yes. I am one of those guys. the only way I can go to Bandon again is with a cart. Unfortunately that is the way it is and I am not happy about it. The game is meant to be played walking but medical issues are medical issues. I actually thought Mike had a few carts for guys like me but I am not positive. I hope as a general rule it stays a walking only place with a few exceptions which rihc noted.

[Terry Lavin]

I do not expect most on here to say yes. I am one of those guys. the only way I can go to Bandon again is with a cart. Unfortunately that is the way it is and I am not happy about it. The game is meant to be played waling but medical issues are medical issues. I actually thought Mike had a few carts for guys like me but I am not positive. I hope as a general rule it stays a walking only place with a few exceptions which rihc noted.

He has a cart for you. Guaranteed. And for others in need. Which will surely remain the case.

[Brent Hutto]

Cliff,

The problem is, you don't get to make the rules. You can't say that carts must be available on demand with no questions asked and then fix it by saying " If you can walk you should and must". Because they won't and they don't. They rent the cart and ride in it. That's the essence of the problem.

You can't have a walking-friendly, almost-all-walking, pristine tire-track-free golf course that lets anyone who asks have a cart on demand.

You can't have a fleet of carts sitting there and ask "riding or walking" when someone books their tee time and magically find that the 2% of customers who are in need of a cart are the only ones who hop in and ride.

What you'll get is the same 60% or 70% of rounds played in carts that is the average everywhere in the country. With the tire tracks and all that. At least the place will still be routed nicely for a walking round, give or take the inevitable workarounds to manage and direct cart traffic. Just like any other really nice golf resort.

But it's OK. We wouldn't want someone who needs a cart to feel singled out or unwelcome. And nobody really needs one place on the continent that manages not to have all the cart-related side effects to deal with. It's just a megre little wish from that tiny minority of us who get a kick out of that kind of thing. An indulgence. We'll enjoy it while it lasts at Bandon and then reminisce about it one day when it's gone. Fortunately, that day is no time soon by all accounts. But we all know it's coming, just not when...

[Cliff Hamm]

Terry...do you know the requirements for a cart and if prior notice is required?  What if you're a single walk on and have not made a tee time?  Can you still get a cart with a simple note from a doctor saying you can't walk?  I have not been able to find that info on the web site....thanks

[Terry Lavin]

Just contact the GM Hank Hickox and he'll steer you the right way.

[Cliff Hamm]

Cliff,

The problem is, you don't get to make the rules. You can't say that carts must be available on demand with no questions asked and then fix it by saying " If you can walk you should and must". Because they won't and they don't. They rent the cart and ride in it. That's the essence of the problem.

You can't have a walking-friendly, almost-all-walking, pristine tire-track-free golf course that lets anyone who asks have a cart on demand.

You can't have a fleet of carts sitting there and ask "riding or walking" when someone books their tee time and magically find that the 2% of customers who are in need of a cart are the only ones who hop in and ride.

What you'll get is the same 60% or 70% of rounds played in carts that is the average everywhere in the country. With the tire tracks and all that. At least the place will still be routed nicely for a walking round, give or take the inevitable workarounds to manage and direct cart traffic. Just like any other really nice golf resort.

But it's OK. We wouldn't want someone who needs a cart to feel singled out or unwelcome. And nobody really needs one place on the continent that manages not to have all the cart-related side effects to deal with. It's just a megre little wish from that tiny minority of us who get a kick out of that kind of thing. An indulgence. We'll enjoy it while it lasts at Bandon and then reminisce about it one day when it's gone. Fortunately, that day is no time soon by all accounts. But we all know it's coming, just not when...

I certainly have no problem with being an essentially walking only course.  Key word is essentially. 

Shouldn't it be possible to make a tee time and provide a doctor's note for a cart?  If I'm a walk on shouldn't I be able to bring my note and get a cart?  Why should that be such a big deal?  It's that simple...but don't make me take a caddy so that the round now costs me a cart fee plus caddy, which would be well north of $100.  That is not a reasonable accomodation.  It is bad enough not being able to walk without having to pay excess fees for things (caddy on a cart) that are not needed.

[Dan King]

Cliff Hamm writes:
Another rule you may want to use is that if you're going to quote me use the WHOLE quote:

Perhaps addressing the issue without analogies/changing the topic would be a prudent course of action

In general I don't quote everything posted by people, but only the portions that apply to me or something I am posting about. Since I have not changed the subject in this thread I figured that was intended for others and not me.

Is that another rule -- that I must quote everything you post regardless how meaningless or absurd? I do have a tack ready and waiting.

Cheers,
Dan King

I might repeat to myself, slowly and soothingly, a list of quotations beautiful from minds profound; if I can remember any of the damn things.
 -- Dorothy Parker

[Jason Thurman]

It appears Bandon is doing quite well. Their tee sheets are pretty full, and prices keep going up.

I've seen a lot of people giving reasons why they wish Bandon would allow carts. How it would make THEIR OWN lives easier. No one has given a remotely compelling reason why Mike Keiser might want to allow carts.

Can someone please explain why BANDON should want to allow cart play?

I wish Bandon would move the entire resort to Cincinnati, charge 20 bucks, allow me to take a cart, and close the course down to everyone else so that I could zip around and play 144 holes a day. I understand that it makes no sense whatsoever for them to make that choice though.

[Jason Thurman]

Cliff, why should the course trust you to know where to take a cart when it has no paths and was designed to be walking only? Why shouldn't you have to take a caddy to ensure that you drive the cart in appropriate areas? Realize that I'm using the universal you, and not trying to insult your personal cart driving skills.

Golf is still an athletic endeavor, and Bandon is a privately owned complex. They're not obligated to make accommodations anymore than Mt. Whitney is obligated to put in an escalator to the top. If I owned the course, I'd probably try to make reasonable accommodations to ensure players with disabilities could still play. But I don't own it, and I can't begrudge Keiser & Co. if they disagree. I'm sure it's frustrating, just like it's frustrating to me that Augusta won't offer limited public play, but I just have to deal with it and play at the literally thousands of other places that will allow me through their gates.

[Cliff Hamm]

Can someone please explain why BANDON should want to allow cart play?

Because of compassion for those unable to walk 18 holes

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