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Matt_Ward

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2003, 03:20:16 PM »
Baxter:

Thanks for the detail reply and congrats on the superb effort at Black Mesa. In my mind -- it's at the top of the charts for New Mexico and that says plenty because the competition in the Land of Enchantment is very keen with the likes of Paa-Ko Ridge, Pinon Hills, Twin Warrior, Santa Ana (Tamaya / Cheenya) and UNM / Championship.

I'm posting below a detailed description of the holes on the back nine which is simply A-W-E-S-O-M-E GOLF.

10th / 457 yards - Par-4

The best par-4 on the course. The hole turns left and there is a bunker complex that protects that side. It is imperative for any player using driver to go directly over the bunker because the fairway pinches in rather quickly if you should block it a bit.

The best part of the hole is that it descends downhill and becomes tighter the further you go. Excellent stuff indeed! The green is angled from left to right and is well contoured and protected against the half-ass approach.

11th / 172 yards - Par-3

Solid uphill par-3. Architects should visit this hole to see why uphill par-3's are needed instead of the pro forma drop shots you almost always see today. The pin was cut in the very back of the green and it requires no less than two more clubs to get an approach that far back. Best part of the hole -- there is a tier for the last 1/4 of the putting surface and if you don't cover it when approaching you'll have to deal with it with your next shot.

12th / 403 yards - Par-4

Again -- a solid hole and one of the bext mid-length par-4's you can play in New Mexico. You start from an elevated tee and the hole again turns left around a series of protecting bunkers. If you bang driver and don't turn the ball over you will likely find a grass bunker on the far side of the fairway. The grass bunker presents an awkward angle to the green which is protected by a bunker and a generous swale that runs through the green.

13th / 591 yards - Par-5

Another dynamite par-5. Here you play from an elevated tee and the hole moves very slightly to the left. There is a fairway bunker out at about 340 yards and it pays to hit just to the right of it as this opens up the hole. Keep in mind that being on the left side of the fairway isn't that bad but it will require a blind second.

The hole does have a cross bunker and if th ewind comes from the north you have to deal with it. If you play the hole with a south helping wind the green can be reached in two blows. Keep in mind that if push your second too far right you can simply bypass a bunker in that area and head right into a wash that is located close to the green.

14th / 389 yards - Par-4

Again, a superb mid-length par-4 that has plenty of options. The hole moves left and has an elevated mounding of natural terrain directly in the middle of the fairway. The junk can be carried with a 250 yards plus shot or you can hope to wiggle your tee shot between the center junk and the canyon that cuts in from that side. Not very easy I might add!

If you lay up you then must hit a blind approach to a green that is angled so well from lower right to back left. A grand hole indeed!

15th / 216 yards - Par-3

Plays from an elevated tee and features the only water on the back side with a pond that protects the entire right side of the green. The cool feature with the hole is a spine that runs through the center of the green. If you decide to bail out from the water and the pin is cut tight to that side you will have to exhibit a great deal of short game skill to walk off with a three.

16th / 536 yards - Par-5

Utterly awesome hole -- credit Baxter for the wherewithal in his routing to move you from one piece of the property to the last two holes.

The hole plays uphill and there is a canyon on the left side that follows you all the way up. The golfer can hit driver but if you decide to bust it you have to get your ball between the canyon on the left and a distant bunker that pinches in from the right. How much is the pinch. I paced off no more than a dozen yards between the edge of the bunker and the edge of the canyon!

My only recommendation is that the space be widened just a bit mote because the smart play for the better player is to lay-up and go from there. The possibility for success is quite small indeed.

The 16th also has a green rich in flavor and contour. I played the hole with a pin in the right rear and it was a chore to simply two-putt. A grand hole and one where many rounds may fade into the sunset.

17th / 424 yards - Par-4

The only real letdown on the side is with the 17th IMHO. The hole turns left but only at the last 125 yards or so. There is plenty of eye-candy bunkers at the turn and only one of them really comes into play from a strategic point of view. The key is getting into proper position -- landing your tee shot either directly in front of or behind the 150 yards marker provides for a level lie to a green protected by a solid bunker. If you hit it too far as a did you run the risk of a downhill approach to a green that sits slightly above you.

18th / 429 yards - Par-4

A dynamic closer. Here you have the only hole that clearly turns right. The smart play is to keep you tee shot at the 150 yard marker and NO MORE. Go too far left of that and you're ball disappears faster than a jackrabbit. If you decide to be a bit frisky and go down the right side you'd best make sure you carry the corner. Even if you do your shot cannot run too far because the fairway does end and there is junk on the far side.

The green is contoured very well and one of the bext natural looking bunkers you'll find at Black Mesa sits directly to the left of the putting surface.

Like I said at the outset the back nine at Black Mesa is indeed A-W-E-S-O-M-E golf and I look forward to returning soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2003, 12:31:25 PM »
Wow.
Thanks for the detailed report Matt.  So did you like it?
Sorry you're already booked for that weekend.

Here's the Back....


A view of 10-12.

Every green is well contoured, varied and interesting.

Ten - Par 4.
I like the tee shot, aim at the Juniper or Black Mesa (with a little less club)  With a front left pin, if you're a little too left on your approach, it may kick hard to the back right portion of the green - 4 putt land.

10th Tee shot - Black Mesa in the distance

View from the left ridge of the 10th greensite.
Black Mesa to the right in the distance.

Eleven - Par 3
The 15 foot hight shelf just left of the green is where you don't want your ball to land.

Note the shelf....

View from the 12th tee.

Twelve - Par 4
It's a beautiful hole, it really fits my eye.
(The sweep from right to left, similar in land form to Barona's 15th)  It plays well also.

From the 12th tee.
Off to a rousing start.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Matt_Ward

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2003, 04:21:46 PM »
Mike:

Do you have any additional pictures from the 13th on to the 18th?

One last question -- are there any plans for an additional 18 connected to the facility? Thanks ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2003, 05:09:32 PM »

Quote
Mike:

Do you have any additional pictures from the 13th on to the 18th?

Coming Soooooooon....
& I have lots more details.

Quote
One last question -- are there any plans for an additional 18 connected to the facility? Thanks ...

There was a conscious decision to leave room for another 18.
Should we get started?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2003, 06:40:20 PM »
Mike, thanks for the beautiful photos!  I am planning to attend and looking forward to playing Black Mesa.  Questions: what is the composition of the rough areas off the green stuff?  Playable?  Waste bunker or native grasses?  Walkability?  I walked Pasatiempo recently pretty easily - is BM in the same category?  Thanks.............
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2003, 09:17:49 AM »
Bill:

Saw your question and offer this:

If you are not in shape walking Black Mesa can be draining -- since you did Pasatiempo it should pose no issue. It is not impossible by any means as many of the holes (minus the walk from the 6th green to 7th tee) is a bit longer.

Second, the rough like areas beyond the fairway are powder areas filled with scrup grass and the like. You can play a shot from these areas but don't expect to advance as far as you would from the grass ones.

The main issue you will encounter is how the winds can just start up on schedule right around noon time. The best plan of attack -- grab an early tee time and take in all the drama and adventure that is Black Mesa. Then if you're bold play in the early afternoon and hold on for the ride of your life.

Mike:

I think Black Mesa would be smart to add another 18. However, the new 18 should pose a different look / feel than the original. It should be dumbed down though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2003, 07:00:10 AM »
Bill -
Walking Pasa is more of a challenge than Black Mesa.  The elevation changes are somewhat "subtle", given the surrounding terrain.  There is however less oxygen in the air at Black Mesa - 5,600 feet.

When playing from off the native areas, I usually play back for a good approach shot.  It is possible to miss the rough and fairway and still hit the green in a pinch. ;D

You need to be pretty wayward to lose a ball, although I have. ::)

Thirteen - Par 5
Hitting to the ever narrowing saddle on your tee shot, if you make it to the saddle, you have a shot at the very large green.  The cross bunker makes for a very good piece of strategy.

The cross bunker

The arroyo / wash just right of the green isn't that far from the green.  Note the color of the natural cart paths.

Fourteen - Par 4
Baxter's favorite.
Great choice selection off the tee as Mr. Ward so eloquently described.  The ridge in the middle of the fairway is very nice.

View from the tee.  Left, right, short or long of the middle ridge?

View from above the green, looking towards Black Mesa.

The grasses should be in full bloom come Sept.

Fifteenth - Par 3
I observed a "double" bogey player bunt/run one up the left side up the hill and have it funnel right back down onto the green.  A nice reward if you keep it left.  I've been playing the bank shot ever since.  The back right pin is awsome, try getting it to stop there if you go right at in, very nice.

From the tee.

A strong finish is to follow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Matt_Ward

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2003, 12:26:14 PM »
Mike:

I mistyped in my last post. If there is to be a second 18 at Black Mesa I wish it will NOT BE DUMBED done from a design standpoint. I do believe it needs to be a different in terms of its presentation no less than what was done at Bandon and then later with Pacific Dunes.

P.S. Great pictures of the course Mike! Can't wait to return ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2003, 06:50:56 AM »
Matt - Thanks for the clarification....

Sixteen - Par 5
The tee shot is something else.
And your choice of where to leave your second (unless of course you're Matt, or have a huge wind at your back) is very fine.  Last time I layed up....  into an arroyo.  ;D
The green surface is very creative.


From the tee....


From the top....
With Black Mesa ever present.


Note the contours.

Seventeen - Par 4
There is a ridge to the left of the green, but I believe it's a skyline green.


Eighteen - Par 4
Very nice green surface
Challenging tee shot
Nice finish


Monster greenside bunker


A tricky putt


First sun

Hope to see you there.
Cheers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

THuckaby2

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2003, 07:09:11 AM »
Mike:  I just have to say THANK YOU for taking the time to do this.  Wow, what a tour.... I am counting the days till September, my friend.  

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2003, 10:53:34 AM »
Mike:

My only comment on the 16th hole deals with the possibility in widening the area between the arroyo on the left and the inside fairway bunker you see in the distance.

The existing space between them is only 10 PACES! In nearly all instances if you're playing for score you simply have to lay-up because it requires a laser like bombed tee shot to make it through that gap. I did it on my second tee shot when I played the hole (the first was yanked into the arroyo) and from there I could reach the green. Widening it a bit will "tempt" the better player tio give it a go.

However, the green can be still reached if you lay-up behind the gap. Likely you'll be looking uphill at 240-250 yards. What makes the hole is the MAGNIFICENT PUTTING SURFACE. This green will NOT YIELD to shoddy putting. Even if you play the hole in a cautious manner it's not a simple pitch and birdie try.

The pin works best when it's in the right or left rear. The slope and contour will clearly bring out the fact if you have a real touch or a Roberto Duran one -- the famed "hands of stone." ;D

I credit Baxter Spann for a superb routing that takes the golfer from lowlands of the par-3 15th and works it's way through a canyon and heads back uphill -- the 16th at Black Mesa is wonderous par-5 that yields nothing except for well thought out play.

When you stand on the 16th tee at Black Mesa the thrill and anticipation is not far behind what one experiences at the 16th at CP. Yes, there's no ocean but the 16th at Black Mesa personifies the state's nickname so aptly ... The Land of Enchantment!

I eagerly look forward to returning and playing this gem of a course. I only hope that management will RESIST the tendency of a number of top rated NM public layouts to overwater the turf. If the bounce is kept in the fairway then the sky's the limit for Black Mesa.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2003, 08:12:24 PM »
Baxter:

If you're still lurking out there, that looks like one hell of a golf course.  I hope to see it in person one day.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

B_Spann

Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2003, 07:13:04 AM »
Thanks, Tom.  We would love to have you out sometime to go around.  I've always felt that the site at Black Mesa is worth the trip to see even if there were no golf course there!

I want to get up to Lubbock soon to see your new baby there, also. Hope to see you again soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2003, 08:16:45 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Mesa Golf Club
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2003, 05:43:14 PM »
Interestingly enough I just noticed one of the newest members is the superintendent from Black Mesa.
Welcom Pat.

Maybe you could share a few bits of your experiences on that great site of yours.

Especially for the guys that are coming out this Sept.

Mike
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.