Public golf near San Diego

[Peter Pratt]

If you could play only one public course in the SD area, which would it be? Is Torrey Pines (South) the best?

Thanks!

[Jud_T]

No,

After extensive trial and error, IMO Barona Creek is the only public track I'll play in the area.  It's quite good and worth the half hour drive.  Also significantly less than Torrey for a non-resident.

[Anthony Fowler]

In my view it's not even close.  Torrey South is by far the best, but that has more to do with the limited supply of good public courses in the area.  In my view, Torrey is much better than many on this site give it credit for.  There is a handful of really good holes with a lot of strategic interest (3, 4, 7, 13, 14, 17).  Most of those holes involve situations where your preferred line or shot is also quite risky.  For example, you'll have a few situations where you want to challenge the cliff edges to get a shorter hole or a better angle into the green.  One downside for some people is that the course never really gives you a breather.  Most of the par 4's will require at least a drive and a long iron which can be exhausting.  Plus, if you hit it in the rough on one of those holes, you could have a tough time reaching the green on your next.  It's clearly designed for tournament golf and not the enjoyment of the average consumer, but that doesn't mean you won't enjoy it. 

The challengers include Barona and Carlton Oaks.  Both are enjoyable but not in the same league as Torrey in my opinion.  Keep in mind that, unlike Jud, I have not factored price into my assessment.  Peter asked about the best not the best value.  I haven't played the newly renovated course at La Costa.  Before that, La Costa didn't belong in this conversation, but maybe it does now.  Hopefully someone else can address that.

[Jud_T]

OK,

Qualified answer.  Peter, if you are a strong player and want to test yourself on a tour track with some nice views, then Torrey's worth it for at least a one time go.  Personally I still think Barona's a better golf course regardless of price.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I have only played Torrey South once, but I wouldn't rush back.  I was really underwhelmed.  As Anthony stated, it was clearly re-worked with tournament golf in mind - and that is just fine - but just not for me.

I didn't see a tremendous amount of strategic value in the course - hit it long, straight, repeat.

If you are looking from some architectural interest, I would look elsewhere.  If you are looking to play a course you see on TV each winter and where Tiger won an Open - then it should be just fine.

[PThomas]

10 rounds between the 2:  Torrey maybe 1, Barona 9 or 10...Barona is really quite good, a Doak 7

[Peter Ferlicca]

It depends on what you want.  If you want to enjoy the nice San Diego lifestyle and play along the cliffs of Torrey Pines and pay $200, then that is for you.  If you want to play an very good golf course that provides great views in its own, then it is no question Barona Creek is the way to go.  I have played both many times and Barona is a better golf course, it actually has variety to it, unlike Torrey. 

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I play these courses regularly in the winter and would rate the courses--Barona, Carlton Oaks, Marine Memorial (provided you are not too upset by somewhat bumpy greens stimping at , Torrey North, Torrey South, and Coronado.  Among the publics, I play a Friday morning money game at San Luis Rey Downs, but it is a good course for challenge, but rather weak in architectural merit. After these, I am not sure there is a course that warrents even a Doak 2, and in the case of a few, they may even warrant the famous Doak 0!

[Dan King]

When my son was at UCSD I woudl take him there and then get in line at Torrey.  After playing both courses numerous times, I'd say Torrey South is only the second best golf course at Torrey. 

When I tired of Torrey (this was in the days before Borona) I would head south of the border and plat Tijuana CC. It's a nice, not spectacular course, and at least back then, you'd often have the course to yourself.

Anybody play Tijuana CC recently? They used to claim it was a MacKenzie design, but if it was, there wasn't much MacKenzie left in the course.

Cheers,
Dan King

The first time I saw Arnold Palmer was at a tournament in Tijuana in 1955. My wife said to me, "I saw the most exciting golfer I've ever seen today; a fellow named Palmer." I thought she meant Johnny Palmer; a short guy with rosy cheeks and bushy black hair. She said, "No, this guy looks more like a middleweight fighter." So I was puzzled, but the next day on the course I saw a young guy with his shirt hanging out, whacking the heck out of the ball, and sometimes it landed in the fairway, and sometimes not. And that was Arnold Palmer.
  --Jim Murray

[Joe Stansell]

I lived in San Diego years ago. We seldom played Torrey South, but we'd line up on weekends to play Torrey North. It was the more enjoyable course between the two, and I doubt that has changed at all. Also not mentioned yet is Balboa Park, which was too convenient for us to resist. Not the best golf course by any means, but also fun. Barona was not an option when I lived in San Diego, but if it were, I suspect I would have spent most of my time there -- except for those rounds played for "convenience."

[DMoriarty]

I agree with others that Barona is the better golf course,  but playing next to the ocean is a big draw, especially to the visitor.

Dan,  Tiajuna CC (formerly Agua Cialente) was originally WP Bell and from what i can tell it  was  a pretty impressive place.  It closed and was dormant for years and when they reopened on the same site I am not sure of how much of the old remains were salvaged.

[Pete Lavallee]

Where to play in San Diego?


Resorts:

Barona Creek 619-387-7018
This is the must play course in the San Diego area. Just a 30 minute drive from downtown, Todd Eckenrode’s creation in Wild Cat Canyon offers a thrill for every class of golfer. The course features strategic bunkering, scattered at different distances, through the wide fairways. Firm and fast conditions put a premium on attacking from the correct angles to the highly contoured greens. Hotel and Casino on site.

Torrey Pines (reservations) 619-570-1234
South: The host for the 2008 US Open is set up as a test of the modern game. Even from the white tees (6,880) this course plays long. Rees improved the 3 holes he moved to the canyon’s edge (3, 4&14) but 18 double plateau greens are a bit repetitive. Green conditions now finally justify the $160-$235 rate.
North: The proposed redesign has been postponed, here’s your chance to play what could be William Francis Bell’s best work. Better use of terrain, nicely contoured set of pushup greens, surely the more scenic of the two courses.
Golfers can show up as early as they want to line up for the morning’s first hour of tee times (cars line up in the parking lot on weekends, during the week you place your golf bag in line in front of the starters booth on the balcony); singles stand a decent chance of getting off through the waiting list in the afternoon.

Carlton Oaks 619-448-4500
This Perry Dye redesign has all the “dye-abolical” trademarks: waste areas, pot bunkers, bulk headed water hazards, volcano bunkers and many greens that slope away in the back. At 7,225 75.2/146 from the tips it’s definitely the second toughest layout in the County. Lots of fun from the blue or white tees though. Hotel on site. They lost all 18 greens this past summer and the new ones are still a bit shaggy.

The Grand at Del Mar 858-792-6200
The only Fazio course in San Diego County; All golfers really want is a thrill; this course comes up short here. Very playable and takes a great picture, but the tea cups at Disney Land are more exciting than this place. Must stay at the Resort to play here now.

La Costa 760-438-9111
Have not had the oppportunity to play the revised North or Champions course as yet. Might well be worth the introductory 2 for 1 rate right now.

Sycuan formerly Singing Hills 800-457-5568
Three courses at this resort built in 1956. Of the two regulation courses Willow and Oak Glen, Willow is more challanging with many greens angled from 7 to 1 o'clock. Also has an 18 hole par 3 course Pine Glen. A good example of the decent courses Ted Robinson did before he went to the dark side. The infusion of money from the Sycuan Indain tribe has elevated conditioning. Inn on site, casino 2 miles down the road.

Warner Springs Ranch 760-782-4270
High desert course is both scenic and challenging. The remote atmosphere makes this course special; resort rooms have no TV or phones! Little over an hour from downtown but very close to Barona.

San Vicente GC 760-789-3477
About a ten minute drive further north than Barona, this is a pleasant mountain layout from Ted Robison's "early period"; not a waterscape in sight here. Inn on site also.


Municipal:

Coronado 619-435-3121
Jack Daray designed San Diego’s “Hidden Gem”, built on fill dredged from the harbor in the 50’s, it has 4 holes that play along Glorietta Bay, subtle doglegs test driving ability, the pushup greens punish poor iron play, wind is often a factor. At $30 on weekdays and $35 on weekends for everyone, it’s the best deal in town; hard to get on due to its popularity.

Balboa Park (reservations) 619-570-1234
Built in 1918 by William Park Bell, this short (6,281) trip out through the canyons and back across the mesa has remained a tough track to score on. Sam Snead’s course record 60, shot here while in the Navy in WWII, still stands. Views of downtown and the Coronado Islands, walkups should have no trouble playing here. Recent deffered maintenance has greatly improved conditions here.

Encinitas Ranch 760-944-1936
Located ten minutes north of Torrey Pines and five minutes south of Legoland this is an enjoyable and reasonably priced daily fee course. Wide open front nine is complemented by the canyons on the back. Built on the site of a former flower ranch, conditions are usually good.

CCFAD’s:

Maderas CC 858-451-8100
Built on a hilly site this course promises the thrilling downhill holes off the bat, the key here is how much fun the uphill holes are. Neal Meagher’s perfect mix off unique green sites are worth the price of admission alone. Soon to go private when enough memberships are sold.


Salt Creek, formerly The Auld Course 619-482-4666
Although built to sell houses you would find it hard to hit one from the golf course. Die hard walkers beware, you must ride here. Cary Bickler and John Cook have crafted some fine holes here, well worth a look if you’re in the South Bay area.

Privates:

Rancho Santa Fe CC
Don’t pass up an opportunity to play here. Max Behr’s 1929 layout got the highest Doak rating in San Diego County (5). Guests of the Rancho Santa Fe Inn can play weekdays after noon with carts and a fore caddy; $$$$.


La Jolla CC
Canyon golf at its best from William Park Bell, built in 1927.

San Diego CC
Another William Park Bell layout with several barrancas was built in 1921. The redesigned greens seem unsympathetic to the Bell style.
,
Tijuana CC
The course claims a MacKenzie heritage, but it sure looks like a William Park Bell to me; possibly during his relationship with Tillinghast. Close enough to the border to take the trolley down and hop in a cab for the short journey to the golf course; public access allowed.

Pauma Valley
The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County is in the high desert just past Barona; once rated within the top 20 in Ca.

Military:

Marine Memorial GC, Camp Pendleton 760-725-4704
Set within the expansive Marine base this course by William Francis Bell occupies a peaceful and secluded river valley 50 minutes from downtown. Somewhat shaggy conditioning here doesn’t detract from the enjoyment. Open to the public during the week now.

Miramar, Memorial GC 858-577-4155
Jack Daray shows how to turn a flat parcel of land into an interesting golf course at the old Top Gun base. Now a Marine Corp Air Station it has some of the best conditioned greens in the County; wind and FA-18’s are always a factor here. Also open to the public.

Sea & Air GC 619-545-9659
Located on North Island Naval Air Station it is a tale of two nines, the front has recently been redesigned to eliminate the many safety issues that the original routing caused. The back nine’s holes are wonderfully separated with 3 playing along the sand dunes right along the beach. The runway splits the back nine and you’ll have an opportunity to see many types of Military Aircraft practicing their touch and goes. Must be escorted onto the base however.

[Joe Stansell]

Pete, that was a very comprehensive list. I have managed to play many on your list over the years. I've also played the Admiral Baker course (in the company of a naval officer), which your list omits. Is that one not open to the public?

[Jud_T]

Pete,

No love for the Crossings at Carlsbad or Aviara?   

[Pete Lavallee]

Joe,

Yes, Admiral Baker is now open to the public. They just redid all greens and bunkers on the North course, it opened May 15 after 6 months of grow in. I have heard great reviews but haven't had a chance to get out there yet. The South Course is a shorter relief course, its tif dwarf greens are quite good; ther only bermuda greens in SD County. If the Military course can't keep its tee sheet full, then it must request a waiver from MWR to allow outside play. The Marines have been allowing that on both Mira Mar and Camp Pendleton for quite some time now; no need for a decal to access those Bases. There are some many Marines deployed that the golf courses desperately needed the business. Admiral Baker North is very popular now, as the layout was always very good but the common bermuda greens were tedious at best. The SCGA rating crew said they were the best greens they had seen in the last year; play them now while they are still pure bent, the poa will creep in eventually. No decal needed there either, as its a recreation facility just west of Quallcom Stadium on Friar's Road. North Island NAS still reqires a decal to get on Base, so you must be escorted. Great back nine there, the front has recently been redesigned for saftey reasons making it a much better experience.

Jud,

I will force myself to play the Crossing at sometime in the future; I just have to have a good reason for self flagalation! My only comment on Aviara is that no matter how many flowers you plant on a golf course it doesn't elevate the golfing experience!

[Jud_T]

Pete,

I wouldn't waste time or money on the Crossings.  We played it a few years ago in a stiff wind and my 10 year old took low gross in our foursome as he was the only one capable of keeping his ball in play!  A serious disappointment in my book.

[Matthew Petersen]

Pete,

I wouldn't waste time or money on the Crossings.  We played it a few years ago in a stiff wind and my 10 year old took low gross since he was the only one capable of keeping the ball in play!  A serious disappointment in my book.

I'm the sort of person who can find the positive in even the worst dog track of a golf course, however ...

If the restrictions of the site were such that the Crossings is the best course that could be built on that site, then it just never should have been built. Utterly ridiculous.

[Jon Spaulding]

Pete, the Crossings is so bad that it actually falls into the must see category.

Hope you're well.

[Stewart Naugler]

I played Barona a few years back with a group of 30 or so superintendents from Michigan. We absolutely loved our time there and the casino's fun too. Sandy Clark is a first class host.

I also really enjoyed the overall experience at Aviara.

Torrey? Let me know if you need an in.

[Pete Lavallee]

Pete,

If the restrictions of the site were such that the Crossings is the best course that could be built on that site, then it just never should have been built. Utterly ridiculous.

Hard to imagine that it took $76 MM to build the place; that isn't including the $5 MM they paid for the land! For 81 million dollars you should get a golf course that is four times better than Shadow Creek!

[Pete Lavallee]

 There is a handful of really good holes with a lot of strategic interest (3, 4, 7, 13, 14, 17).  Most of those holes involve situations where your preferred line or shot is also quite risky.  For example, you'll have a few situations where you want to challenge the cliff edges to get a shorter hole or a better angle into the green.  

I really have to disagree with this quote. How can you have strategy on holes with 25 yard wide fairways? Anthony must be one hell of a golfer if he's deciding which side of the landing strip he'll land his ball on. Plain and simple Torrey South is a rote test of pure ball striking. Hit it long and straight or else! There are only 2 holes which could be considered doglegs, 6 & 7; there is at least some decision making on where to aim on those two holes. But unless you can drive it 270 and hit high 200 yard 5 irons this golf course will extract its pound of flesh. The sad thing is that with the evolution of balls and clubs it is the perfect test for the modern elite game. The downside is that is just no fun for average golfers. Moving up doesn't help much either, since the white tees are around 6600 and the green tees are at the very front of every tee box; pretty humiliating.

Now the North course is fun and doable for average golfers. You get the cliff top ocean setting, more scenic holes and probably the best three holes at the complex: the par 4 11th and 13th and their signature hole the par 3 6th. For out of towners $100 on the weekend sure beats $235!

[Alex Miller]

^
Agree with Pete. The best oceanside course in San Diego may very well be the cheapest, Coronado.

Barona is clearly the best course (public) of the bunch.

[Peter Pratt]

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the counsel. Looks like I better get to Barona Creek.

[Anthony Fowler]

 There is a handful of really good holes with a lot of strategic interest (3, 4, 7, 13, 14, 17).  Most of those holes involve situations where your preferred line or shot is also quite risky.  For example, you'll have a few situations where you want to challenge the cliff edges to get a shorter hole or a better angle into the green.  

I really have to disagree with this quote. How can you have strategy on holes with 25 yard wide fairways? Anthony must be one hell of a golfer if he's deciding which side of the landing strip he'll land his ball on. Plain and simple Torrey South is a rote test of pure ball striking. Hit it long and straight or else! There are only 2 holes which could be considered doglegs, 6 & 7; there is at least some decision making on where to aim on those two holes. But unless you can drive it 270 and hit high 200 yard 5 irons this golf course will extract its pound of flesh. The sad thing is that with the evolution of balls and clubs it is the perfect test for the modern elite game. The downside is that is just no fun for average golfers. Moving up doesn't help much either, since the white tees are around 6600 and the green tees are at the very front of every tee box; pretty humiliating.

Now the North course is fun and doable for average golfers. You get the cliff top ocean setting, more scenic holes and probably the best three holes at the complex: the par 4 11th and 13th and their signature hole the par 3 6th. For out of towners $100 on the weekend sure beats $235!

Pete, I don't think we disagree entirely.  The South course is brutal for the average golfer and the fairways are pretty narrow which does impede the golfers strategic choices somewhat.  But couldn't you say the same things about Winged Foot, Oakmont, Merion, Olympic, Shinnecock, etc.?  What makes Torrey such a bore compared to these courses?  I would bet it has more to do with conditioning, history, and the modern character of the greens and bunkers than it has to do with length, fairway width, and challenge. 

I do believe that there is strategic interest at Torrey.  I have played the course about 100 times.  Most of those rounds were played when I was a sub-scratch competitive junior golfer, so my experience was different from most.  Nonetheless, the holes that I mentioned do actually provide some opportunity for decision-making, psychology, and strategy.  Could I imagine improvements?  Yes.  I would like to see at least one good shorter par 4 at Torrey (and I don't think Mike Davis really accomplished that by playing the front tees on 14 in the Open).  2 and 10 are prime opportunities for that.  Also, I would like to see more internal interest in the greens.  Most of the greens involve flat subsections separated by dramatic ridges.  As a result, the player sometimes has a funky long putt, but most putts are relative straight and unexciting.

In regards to Barona, I don't see what everyone else here does.  It's fun but also contrived in places.  To me, it still reeks of an artificial, modern course.  To compare it to something close by, it's not even in the same league as Rustic Canyon.  It might be better than a lot of other San Diego golf options, but if you moved it somewhere else, I don't think it would stand out.     

[Jud_T]

Anthony,

No question that Rustic is the better course, but saying it's nearby is a bit of a stretch.  As for the strategic merits of Torrey for the scratch player, I'll leave that to the scratch players amongst us to debate.  The point is that for most everyone else Barona would be the clear choice amongst publics within an hour of San Diego.