[William_G]

Lucky to have had the opportunity to play both Pronghorn courses on Wed. this week with a friend.
Had heard lots about Pronghorn and am glad to have played! Love the scent from the Juniper trees.

map...Pronghorn development, blue #1 in the green box on the right...high desert... elevation 3200



scorecard



routing



greens!



#1
inviting handshake to start









#2
see the width of the course from the tee with connected fairway and connected fairway at the green complex with #13















#3
heading north, with more width at the green!











#4
desert par 3







#5
heading east








#6
water feature and lava at green, nice view homes on the left-facing west







#7









#8
lava tube!








#9
nice par 5 with a mini green












#10
fairway adjoining #9, more width










#11
a hole that captures the view west! This is what everyone loves about this area!
would have liked to seen more of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







#12
width, golfer friendly, another shared fairway at tee shot landing area









#13
long par 4







#14
drivable par 4, my favorite hole








#15
Looonnnngggg par 4







#16
longish par 3





#17
two greens








#18
to the clubhouse!! speed slot left off the tee
felt as though I’ve played this hole before somewhere else










Both courses very walkable.
Enjoyed the visual intimidation of the Nicklaus and the refined green complexes and bunkers.
Enjoyed the width of the Fazio while visually more rugged and rough looking.
The Nicklaus has width where it wants you to be while the Fazio has more width where you might be.

OK. Thanks

[Jeff Doerr]

Thanks William. I've not made it out to the Fazio and wanted to see a good write up!

[Rory Connaughton]

Thank you for posting. Pronghorn Fazio looks like a terrific course .

[Jim Johnson]

Thanks for the tour William.
I love photo tours of courses I've yet to play. 

Jim

[John Kirk]

Thanks for the tour, William.  I've played each Pronghorn course once; both are excellent.

[Stephen Davis]

Great pictures! I have had the privilege to play both the Pronghorn courses several times and I love them both! They are a ton of fun to play, and like you said, they are very walkable. I find myself preferring the Fazio a little more each time, but why that is I cannot say. They are both great courses!

[Randy Thompson]

Great piece of property and well utilized, Fazio always get good properties and seems to know how to maximize them. Great tour, I am sure it took some time. Seems like a lot of sand..did it come into play a lot?

[Garland Bayley]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

[Matthew Petersen]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

It's also posted on their website, and without copyright notice.

[Garland Bayley]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

It's also posted on their website, and without copyright notice.

Every page of the website has a copyright notice. Don't know if their use of Flash to display the yardage book means it is not copyrighted.
We've got lots of lawyers here, maybe one of them will chime in on this.

[Richard Choi]

Thanks for the photos. That is one of prettiest courses I have ever seen. Fazio sure has talent for the visuals.

[Stephen Davis]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

I don't know the legalities, but the yardage book is provided for free along with the scorecard.

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks for the photos. That is one of prettiest courses I have ever seen. Fazio sure has talent for the visuals.

That look is quickly going retro. 

[Joe Stansell]

We've got lots of lawyers here, maybe one of them will chime in on this.

Copyright attaches automatically upon the creation of a work; "claiming it" by posting a notice is not a requirement.

[Garland Bayley]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

I don't know the legalities, but the yardage book is provided for free along with the scorecard.

Good! That's part of what I wanted to hear.

[Garland Bayley]

We've got lots of lawyers here, maybe one of them will chime in on this.

Copyright attaches automatically upon the creation of a work; "claiming it" by posting a notice is not a requirement.

Bad! That's not what I wanted to hear. I don't think Ran wants to be running a Napster.

[John_Cullum]

Was that yardage book copyrighted as an item they sell?

Hopefully it is something they just give away for free, as it has been given away for free here.

I don't know the legalities, but the yardage book is provided for free along with the scorecard.

That does make it a bit of a problem to prove damages. Especially since there is no attempt to profit from this reproduction on an obscure website devoted to golf course architectural bickering

[Joe Stansell]

I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here, because I'm really not worried about this.

But Sarge, that the "work" was given away for free doesn't say a darn thing about damages that might be recoverable in a lawsuit for copyright infringement. A court can award statutory damages ranging from $750 to $30,000 per work (and is each page a separate work?), plus "treble" damages if the infringement is deemed intentional.

For Ran, he might want to consider looking into his rights and responsibilities under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act -- that is, how to qualify for the "safe harbor" that it provides. One aspect of that would be to set up a system for receiving "take down notices" from copyright holders.

For those of us who post images that are not our own work, we would be doing Ran a favor if we asked permission of the copyright holder (and in some cases, that might be difficult) before positing it. That said, there's also "fair use" arguments to be made -- but that's definitely getting deep into the weeds.

[George Freeman]

I'm guessing Pronghorn is more pleased that someone is promoting their course to a golf architecture website than upset about the very off chance someone prints these pages to take to the golf course and forgoes buying a $7 yardage book...

I wouldn't be too worried about litigation...

[Joe Stansell]

I'm guessing Pronghorn is more pleased that someone is promoting their course to a golf architecture website than upset about the very off chance someone prints these pages to take to the golf course and forgoes buying a $7 yardage book...

I wouldn't be too worried about litigation...

Concur.

[Emil Weber]

I'm with George on this one.

And the subject of this thread ought to be the golf course, which does not only look pretty, there also seems to be a lot of strategic bunkering and the green complexes look quite interesting aswell - Fazio seems to have some good people working for him. Thanks for the tour!

[Sean Leary]

Seems very restrained for Fazio to me. Looks less "shaped" than most of his courses.

[Stephen Davis]

Sean,

I haven't played a ton of Fazio courses, but I am with you. I would never call the Fazio course at Pronghorn contrived. It flows very smoothly and in many ways feels very natural.

[John_Cullum]

I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here, because I'm really not worried about this.

But Sarge, that the "work" was given away for free doesn't say a darn thing about damages that might be recoverable in a lawsuit for copyright infringement. A court can award statutory damages ranging from $750 to $30,000 per work (and is each page a separate work?), plus "treble" damages if the infringement is deemed intentional.

For Ran, he might want to consider looking into his rights and responsibilities under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act -- that is, how to qualify for the "safe harbor" that it provides. One aspect of that would be to set up a system for receiving "take down notices" from copyright holders.

For those of us who post images that are not our own work, we would be doing Ran a favor if we asked permission of the copyright holder (and in some cases, that might be difficult) before positing it. That said, there's also "fair use" arguments to be made -- but that's definitely getting deep into the weeds.

Isn't it the case that a plaintiff can only recover "statutory damages" if the work is registered; otherwise, it is limited to actual damages?

[John Kirk]

I'm guessing Pronghorn is more pleased that someone is promoting their course to a golf architecture website than upset about the very off chance someone prints these pages to take to the golf course and forgoes buying a $7 yardage book...

I wouldn't be too worried about litigation...

Agreed.  Pronghorn has beautiful, flattish golf courses that feature a unique ecosystem, a dry high (4000') desert that is still mostly volcanic lava.  The sparse landscape is populated with western juniper trees, which have a small range.

Taking a look at the holes to jog my memory, I especially like #3, #4, #6, #8, #9, #10, #12, and #15.

#3 is a long par 4 with lots of room and a big left shoulder by the green.  You can bank them in there.  Easy long 4.

#4 is unadulterated, a shockingly flat short par 3.

#6 is really snazzy, a mid length par 4 where a left fairway will give a huge distance and directional advantage, but it's too far for me to hit it reliably over there.  William Grieve can hit it, and might have a go.  For me it's fairway wood out to the right, then short iron in.  The hole sort of throws the kitchen sink at you, in terms of attractive distractions, and it's fun to play.

#8 is one of the most photographed holes in the last ten years.  Lava tube hole.  It plays a very short distance, 170 equaling 8-iron for me, maybe 20 yards short.  But the green is wickedly sloped, and it is, after all, the lava tube hole.  From volcanic activity from only 12,000 years ago, from Newberry Crater to the south.

#9 is a sleeper, a neat design, a really long (600 or so), right curving par 5 with lots of room, lots of sand, and a flat, tiny green.

#10 has a great green complex, with the back left tucked into a little stone niche, and a pretty pot bunker front center.

#11 is my least favorite.

#12 is a lovely short par 5, with a late turn to the right.

I liked #15, a long par 4 left that allows you to play freely. despite the fact my host ran into me in the cart.  It's OK; I was only slightly injured.

#17 looks like a snail with two separate eyes (greens).  I played the left one.




 

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