Philmont's North course: a photo tour (all holes up)

[Joe Bausch]

Over the next week I'll present a photo tour of this later 20's course that has been talked a bit on this site before, but really no extensive photo tour.  I was fortunate to play there last week with a mid-morning start on a sunny and completely cloudless day, so some pics are pretty good, others less so.  But I really enjoyed my round there on this wonderful Williem Flark design. 

Apparently the North course was well received early on, and I have an article from a Philly golf writer in 1931 that claimed Philmont was all but certain to get the 1932 US Open.  Not sure what happened there!

The routing is very strong IMO, with some wonderful terrain beautifully navigated.  I find the par 3's clustered near the par 5's, with these all surrounded by the par 4's to be interesting.



#1.  Par 4 (399 yards; I'll give back tee yardages).  Yes, the first two holes might make the less straight hitter nervous as each hole is fairly tight and lined with an insanely very large number of mostly tulip poplars.

Tee view of this slight dogleg-right hole where being left in the fairway is needed for a clear shot in:



Approach shot view:



From just over the green:



#2.  Par 4 (415 yards), playing slightly downhill.

Tee view:



Approach shot view with the pond right up against the front of the green:



This is a real neat green contour wise but the pics just don't adequately show it.  From short of the green:



From the hill over the green, near the third tee:



#3.  Slightly uphill par 3 (160 yards).  I started to like the course very much after seeing this 1-shotter, probably my fave of the four.

Tee view:



Two views from short and right of the green, which has more noticeable contours than the first two greens:





From the back of the green:



Three more tomorrow. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe,

Where's the pic of the Toomey & Flynn plaque near the first hole? Has it been removed?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Joe, thanks for posting this.  I am looking forward to it, as I have never seen the golf course before, apart from passing by on the road, and usually with a Harris to go along.  

Stevie, was there really a Toomey & Flynn plaque?  From what I have heard, nothing would surprise me.  A Willie Park, Jr. golf course is something to be very, very proud of.    Meaning, you should get down the AC Expressway and see a Willie Park, Jr. course for yourself.   

[Ed Brzezowski]

Good job Joe

[Bob Harris]

Joe,

Where's the pic of the Toomey & Flynn plaque near the first hole? Has it been removed?

Steve,
I was there last week for a course rating.  The plaque is still there.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Where's the pic of the Toomey & Flynn plaque near the first hole? Has it been removed?

Steve,
I was there last week for a course rating.  The plaque is still there.

Correct.  But I'm not sure Toomey's name is on it.

But let's move on and appreciate and evaluate the layout.  Comments suggesting why this is definitely a Flynn course or instead a Park are very welcome.  Or perhaps why it could be considered a Flark.

[Tom MacWood]

I'm a big fan of Flark.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

The land itself looks awesome. There is so much movement to it. 
Architecturally, this does look really well preserved, especially if we look at a historic aerial.  From points in time of the late 1940s to now, there appears to be very little change to the North Course.  In fact, I was almost shocked at how many original features are still on the ground. 

It appears to be a few VERY tough starting holes. 

The bunkering on 3 makes me uncomfortable; there appear to be the two small bunkers, cut into mounds, that frame the green.  I wonder. I imagine the architect is doing his job!
From the air, it looks like one thing, from pictures, another.  And, I am sure, in person, yet another. 

The ravine off 4 tee is so impressive.

A lot of the bunkering reminds me of my Home Course, but reminds me less of Glen Ridge, and New Haven CC.  GRCC and NHCC have different shaped bunkers.  Some of the bunker placement looks similar to Woodway, in Darien.  What do you think? 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Additionally, how does the design of Philmont relate, timewise, to Ashbourne?  Geographically, they are very close in proximity, and had to have members in common. 

[Joe Bausch]

Additionally, how does the design of Philmont relate, timewise, to Ashbourne?  Geographically, they are very close in proximity, and had to have members in common.  

Ashbourne opened a few years before the construction of the North course began.

When I went back and checked my files, I was wrong with the above statement!  Big time wrong.

Construction of the Willie Park Ashbourne course started in early 1923, with a company headed up by Francis Warner and Frank Meehan doing the construction.  A soft opening of Ashbourne occurred in late 1923 with 9 holes open.  The other 9 holes opened in 1924, with the last four of those opening on July 27, 1924.

This is very close to the time of the construction and opening of the North course at Philmont.  The land for PNorth (150 forested acres) was obtained in early 1923 and construction commenced.  In late 1923 Philmont had a soft opening of the North course when Max Marston was honored.  The course was officially opened to members in summer of 1924.

That is my interpretation of the many articles I have on both courses.  I'll double check with the expert on all things Philadelphia golf, Tom MacWood, to make sure I haven't short-changed anyone.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Doug,

North has been compared favorably to Park's Woodway in CT. I have shown pics of Woodway to some former Philmont members as an example of Park's work and they couldn't or didn't want to believe that Woodway was  a Park design because it looked so similar to North.

Ashbourne was built after  Philmont  as a closer to the city alternative to Philmont. Although both clubs were "historically Jewish" then, Philmont was exclusively German Jewish then and Ashbourne was not, if my recollection is correct.

[Joe Bausch]

#4.  Par 4 (402 yards).  Here a ravine must be carried on the drive, to a green sort of teetering on the edge of another ravine over the green.

Tee view.



The hill is not long, but fairly steep:



Approach shot view:



From short and right of this bunkerless green:



From over the green:



#5.  Par 4 (439 yards). 

The tee box is elevated, and the fairway then gently climbs to the green, making this a pretty healthy two-shotter.


 
View from 200 yards out:



From just short of the green with a difficult to detect false front:



From the back edge of the green:



#6.  Par 4 (369 yards).

Blind tee shot on this narrow hole running downhill to the green in front of a creek/pond.  Many might prefer hitting the club off the tee to give them a full, flatter lie into the green.

Tee view:



From 75 yards out:



From left of the green showing the downhill nature of the hole:



From right of the green:



View of the green from near the 4th green:



Three more tomorrow after a round of golf this afternoon in Jersey. 

[mike_malone]

 When I think of Flynn I think of angled bunkering at the greens. I don't see much, if any, of that here. I also recall some chocolate drops around a couple of the greens at Philmont. I don't think of Flynn when I see those. The fairways do remind me of Flynn's though.

[Tom MacWood]

Here some old threads dealing with the attributions of the North and South courses.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,19797.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38155.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39003.msg815419.html#msg815419

I don't believe it is mentioned in any of these threads, but the South course was redesigned and expanded from 9 to 18 in 1908-09 and apparently HH Barker was responsible. In September 1909 it was reported in American Golfer that Barker was engaged at Philmont, among other places.

[Joe Bausch]

#7.  Downhill and dogleg-right par 4 (490 yards).

On the 4th hole, you had to scale the ridge, now you get to take a ride down it. 

Tee view, where a good drive will catch the downside of the ridge and really run out.



View of the green from the top of the ridge:



A look back to the ridge:



From 100 yards out:



From right of the green, which this pic reasonably shows what appears to be the club reclaiming green space both back right and left where it is squared-off:



#8.  Slightly downhill par 3 (132 yards).

Back tee view:



Front tee view:



From just short of the green:



From long and just left of the green:



#9.  Par 5 (574 yards; No. 1 stroke hole).

From an elevated tee this sweeping dogleg-right par 5 runs uphill after the tee shot.  It just keeps going and going like the energizer bunny.    It is probably the most talked about hole on the course, and those trees right are needed to keep people from playing across the 11th hole and 10th green.

Tee view:



Your drive needs to get way left in the fw, farther left than this, or you'll have to cut a shot up the dogleg:



Lots of 3rd shot views will look like this:



From short of the green:



A nice view of the 9th green is had from the 1st tee box:



Back nine starts tomorrow.

[Rory Connaughton]

Thanks for the tour Joe.  Looks like a lot of fun to be had at Philmont.
Mayday - notwithstanding recent discoveries etc. I agree that the fairways look like they could come from a Flynn

Joe, am I right that 2 green would look really good if the trees were cleared from the bluff behind it?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe, am I right that 2 green would look really good if the trees were cleared from the bluff behind it?

Yes.

And that would be just the beginning.   

[Jim Sherma]

Philmont North is a fun course. Played it a few years ago and thought it was a blast, thanks for the pictures. Looking through them I remember quite a few of the shots I hit that day. There are so many good old courses in and around Philly. The tee shot up and over the hill (8 I believe) was one of my favorites. Looking forward to the back nine.

[Joe Bausch]

I've modified my post earlier as it had what I believe now to be incorrect information.  Here is what I feel currently concerning the timing of the Ashbourne and Philmont North layouts:

Construction of the Willie Park Ashbourne course started in early 1923, with a company headed up by Francis Warner and Frank Meehan doing the construction.  A soft opening of Ashbourne occurred in late 1923 with 9 holes open.  The other 9 holes opened in 1924, with the last four of those opening on July 27, 1924.

This is very close to the time of the construction and opening of the North course at Philmont.  The land for PNorth (150 forested acres) was obtained in early 1923 and construction commenced.  In late 1923 Philmont had a soft opening of the North course when Max Marston was honored.  The course was officially opened to members in summer of 1924.

That is my interpretation of the many articles I have on both courses.  I'll double check with the expert on all things Philadelphia golf, Tom MacWood, to make sure I haven't short-changed anyone.  

Note:  Willie Park Jr died in May, 1925.

[Joe Bausch]

In September 1909 it was reported in American Golfer that Barker was engaged at Philmont, among other places.

If anyone has the page number of this AG article from Sept, 1909, can you pass it along?  I cannot find it.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

I used to loop there in my teenage years and have played it a dozen times. Course looks to be in wonderful condition. Joe is doing a really good job.

7, 9, and 11-12 makes for a tough stretch in the middle of your round! No wonder the halfway is almost always open.

[Tom MacWood]

Page 284.

[Tom MacWood]

Page 284.....I assume the USGA has the annual version of the magazine as opposed individual issues.

[Mark McKeever]

JWB,

Great tour so far.  I really like what they are doing out there to reclaim sections of greens and other collection areas.  It's really coming along well and I can only imagine its potential if some trees were taken out. 

Very enjoyable golf course on fantastic terrain.

Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The often controversial 9th hole is prominently featured in an old article from the 1960s posted in the clubhouse as the best par5 in the area.
The best par3 was the 4th at Whitemarsh and the best par4 was the 11th at Merion East.

I have actually birdied the 9th once many years ago.