Slow Play Penalty---Thoughts?

[jeffwarne]

I know that "rules are rules" but I think this akin to getting a slow play warning from a ranger if a foursome is the only one on the course.

Sometimes you gotta give those to get the caddies home before dark

[Alex Miller]

I think like Ken mentioned earlier, since she's not used to being on the clock herself (never having been penalized) she might not have known how to deal with it and avoid the penalty.

I'm all for penalizing slow play, but perhaps this case shows why there's trepidation about doing so.

with what 5 or less penalties a year,very few are used to being penalized.
watch the tape and tell me if she looks as if she has even an inkling she's on the clock.
Although perhaps 4 practice swings is 1/2 her usual?
agreed the rules are pretty arbitrary, but Na at least was aware of his behavior and trying to make it up in other ways

I haven't seen the tape or found it online yet, but she probably didn't think she was on the clock, or if she did I doubt she changed a thing since Munoz was the one who was given the incorrect time.

From Pressel's history it sounds like she didn't have much behavior to be aware of or make up for. Kevin Na is all up in his head and a separate case if you ask me, but he certainly exceeds :30 on most of his shots

[jeffwarne]

I think like Ken mentioned earlier, since she's not used to being on the clock herself (never having been penalized) she might not have known how to deal with it and avoid the penalty.

I'm all for penalizing slow play, but perhaps this case shows why there's trepidation about doing so.

with what 5 or less penalties a year,very few are used to being penalized.
watch the tape and tell me if she looks as if she has even an inkling she's on the clock.
Although perhaps 4 practice swings is 1/2 her usual?
agreed the rules are pretty arbitrary, but Na at least was aware of his behavior and trying to make it up in other ways

I haven't seen the tape or found it online yet, but she probably didn't think she was on the clock, or if she did I doubt she changed a thing since Munoz was the one who was given the incorrect time.

From Pressel's history it sounds like she didn't have much behavior to be aware of or make up for. Kevin Na is all up in his head and a separate case if you ask me, but he certainly exceeds :30 on most of his shots

How on earth could she not know she was on the clock?-they were warned on the 9th, and according to Charlie Rhymer, it was the second warning.

[Alex Miller]

I think like Ken mentioned earlier, since she's not used to being on the clock herself (never having been penalized) she might not have known how to deal with it and avoid the penalty.

I'm all for penalizing slow play, but perhaps this case shows why there's trepidation about doing so.

with what 5 or less penalties a year,very few are used to being penalized.
watch the tape and tell me if she looks as if she has even an inkling she's on the clock.
Although perhaps 4 practice swings is 1/2 her usual?
agreed the rules are pretty arbitrary, but Na at least was aware of his behavior and trying to make it up in other ways

I haven't seen the tape or found it online yet, but she probably didn't think she was on the clock, or if she did I doubt she changed a thing since Munoz was the one who was given the incorrect time.

From Pressel's history it sounds like she didn't have much behavior to be aware of or make up for. Kevin Na is all up in his head and a separate case if you ask me, but he certainly exceeds :30 on most of his shots

How on earth could she not know she was on the clock?-they were warned on the 9th, and according to Charlie Rhymer, it was the second warning.

Because Munoz was the one who recorded the bad times initially? She probably knew, but like Ken said, if she didn't have problems with slow play prior she probably never had to adjust.

[Carl Nichols]

Pressel's (hot though she may be)

Seriously?

[David Lott]

Mental error by Pressel.

Big moment, big match. She needed to be more aware.

The problem is with the rule.  By all reports Munoz was primarily responsible for the slow play but Pressel gets penalized. Particularly hard since she needed to change clubs due to a wind shift. Suppose there had been commotion in the gallery instead? Should she have been penalized? And why is that any different than a wind shift?

The official has discretion, regardless of what he said. He should have used it. Who gives a damn if the second match in a two match tournament is another 39 seconds behind.

It detracted from the spectator enjoyment of a very good match. Of course so does slow play. But for this match on this day in this format the slow play was meaningless. Thus discretion would have been a good idea.

That said, Morgan never should have put herself in the position in the first place.

[Rich Goodale]

Something here does not compute....

I play regularly in Seniors events which have a policy of 45-60 seconds/shot (we're Seniors after all, and we sometimes we need an extra 15-30 seconds to remember where we are and even what game we are playing....) and 3 hours 45 minutes/round for 3-balls, all played strictly under the Rules of Golf for stroke play, and highly competitive.

http://www.scottishseniorsgolf.com/page21.htm

How can the Ladypros have 5 1/2 hour rounds if they are limited to 30 seconds/shot?


Call me "Confused in Caledonia"

[Matthew Rose]

Mental error by Pressel.

Big moment, big match. She needed to be more aware.

The problem is with the rule.  By all reports Munoz was primarily responsible for the slow play but Pressel gets penalized. Particularly hard since she needed to change clubs due to a wind shift. Suppose there had been commotion in the gallery instead? Should she have been penalized? And why is that any different than a wind shift?

The official has discretion, regardless of what he said. He should have used it. Who gives a damn if the second match in a two match tournament is another 39 seconds behind.

It detracted from the spectator enjoyment of a very good match. Of course so does slow play. But for this match on this day in this format the slow play was meaningless. Thus discretion would have been a good idea.

That said, Morgan never should have put herself in the position in the first place.

This is my whole problem with it.... I don't like the way that a whole group can get penalized for the actions of one offender. It's almost like the false start rule in track where they let the first one go but disqualify the second one even if it is a different person.... so the first person to screw up gets away with it while the second one is tossed out.

[Sean_A]

While I applaud actions to quicken play, I can't get seriously behind this sort of thing until the rule is just like any other rule - meaning players can call each other and themselves on it.  I know  this would mean players asking caddies to get the stop watch out, confirming there is a problem then players confronting the issue, but it will always be seen as an arbitrary penalty if rules officials are the only ones in charge - especially if there is leeway.  I think the idea requires better application. 

Ciao

[Dan Herrmann]

Sean - it was match play.  Referee rules all in match play.

[Jim Franklin]

I wish that referee was at the Baltimore City Two Man this weekend. When we arrived at the tee of the par 3 6th hole, there were FOUR foursomes waiting. It took SIX hours to play that day. Brutal. Good on the ref.

[Garland Bayley]

The ladies' tour has been penalizing slow play for quite awhile. Probably Michelle Wie's first "rules violation" was a slow play penalty perhaps when she was 15 or so. Michelle played very quick then compared to the rest of the ladies. Her problem was that she was out driving them by over 50 yards. When she began playing tour events she would walk forward to her ball and be ready to play. The ladies began to complain about her being a distraction, so she began to wait until they played before going forward. She out drives her partner(s?) by 85 yards, waits, goes forward to her ball when it is her turn, and ends up with a slow play penalty on the hole for being "polite".

[Carl Nichols]

The ladies' tour has been penalizing slow play for quite awhile. Probably Michelle Wie's first "rules violation" was a slow play penalty perhaps when she was 15 or so. Michelle played very quick then compared to the rest of the ladies. Her problem was that she was out driving them by over 50 yards. When she began playing tour events she would walk forward to her ball and be ready to play. The ladies began to complain about her being a distraction, so she began to wait until they played before going forward. She out drives her partner(s?) by 85 yards, waits, goes forward to her ball when it is her turn, and ends up with a slow play penalty on the hole for being "polite".

When does the clock start? 

[Jim Franklin]

Pressel's (hot though she may be)

Seriously?

He was kidding right?

[Jud_T]

Doak 5 or 6...

[Tim Martin]

Doak 5 or 6...

Is she over the limit on pastels?

[JMEvensky]

Didn't see this but heard Pressel said that her opponent did something like ground a club later in match.What happened and was the complaint legitimate?

I didn't see that anyone else had answered.

On 15(?) green,Munoz took a practice stroke on her line,halfway between her ball and the hole.Pressel was watching while lining up her own putt and claimed that Munoz had actually touched the green.Munoz said she didn't.The officials eventually went to the video tape and found no conclusive evidence that Munoz touched the green.

Was Pressel's claim legitimate? My $.02--no touring Pro would ever make a mistake as stupid as touching the green on her own line.I think Pressel was just pissed and looking to get even.

[Rich Goodale]

Doak 5 or 6...

For women who can consistently make forced carries of 100 yards or more, she's a 9 (just in case she googles me, my wife is a 10).

[Kalen Braley]

You can't just post the pics of her at her best....on the course is probably close to her natural day to day appearance..

[Rich Goodale]

You can't just post the pics of her at her best....on the course is probably close to her natural day to day appearance..

On that basis, my wife is at least a 12, and please no more pictures of women golfer knees......

[Sean Leary]

So, let's say she lost the 12th hole outright on score, there essentially would have been no penalty since she lost anyway? That seems odd.

[Niall C]

I don't get to watch too much TV golf in the UK these days but had the misfortune to see the last 7 or 8 holes of the final of the mickey mouse world matchplay (or whatever they call it this week) and a two ball with the whole course to themselves must have taken 2 hrs 20 mins for that stretch alone. Yes it was a bit breezy and yes McDowell was up against it and had to take a couple of drops, but still, as a good friend of mine would say "slower than a week in the jail".

Niall

[Mark Saltzman]

So, let's say she lost the 12th hole outright on score, there essentially would have been no penalty since she lost anyway? That seems odd.

Sean, it's also interesting that if she missed that 5-foot putt and then took a second or two to tap in for her 4, she's almost right on her allotted time, halves the hole and likely does not incur the penalty.

[Matthew Petersen]

So, let's say she lost the 12th hole outright on score, there essentially would have been no penalty since she lost anyway? That seems odd.

Sean, it's also interesting that if she missed that 5-foot putt and then took a second or two to tap in for her 4, she's almost right on her allotted time, halves the hole and likely does not incur the penalty.

And how often do you see LPGA players merely take a second or two, even on a tap-in? 

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm thrilled they assessed the penalty.  Let's see if the boys at the PGA Tour can follow suit.