The Evolution of Pete Dye

[Phil McDade]

This would be my top 10:


1.  The Ocean Course at Kiawah
2.  The Golf Club
3.  Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
4.  Harbour Town
5.  Long Cove
6.  Honors Course
7.  Pete Dye Golf Club
8.  TPC Sawgrass
9.  Whistling Straits
10.  The Fort (Indy)

Whistling Straits is pretty low. No Blackwolf?

I was thinking the same thing. I would put Blackwolf at #9, above Straits and below Sawgrass

WStraits is a far superior course to the River course at Blackwolf Run.

[Rich Goodale]

Wow

Two great oldies-but-newbies (Sturges and Clouser) on this thread.  Maybe this site has a future!

Rich

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think I prefer Mr. Dye's early courses. They always seem to offer a modern interpretation of old school UK features. Granted, most of the features were manufactured and didn't always feel natural to their site, but the courses are really good. I think of DeBordieu, Preswick CC, and Long Cove in SC.


Michael,

I think it was 1968 or 1969 when Pete and I played against each other in the North-South Amateur he discussed the connection to the "old school UK features" and that he was incorporating them into his designs.  Sleepers, mounds, etc..  He told me of his observations of UK courses and how golf was played there and the need to return golf course architecture to its roots and to also introduce elements of penal rather than resort golf.

Tom Doak's comments about the evolving perspectives is true.

Fast forward 20 years to 1989 at the Mid-Amateur at Crooked Stick.
During the practice rounds, I walk off the 13th green to the 14th tee and there's Pete up in a dozer grading a new tee, back and to the left of the current tee.  So, I go over, say "hello" and we start conversing.
My curiosity is peeked, so I say, "Pete, what are you doing ?"
He says, "Pat, when you play Winged Foot, Baltusrol and the other great courses you use your 2 and 3-irons don't you"
I say, "yeah, sure, all the time"
He says, "well so are those sons of bitches.  I'm moving the tee back and to the left so that they can't cut the dogleg and have to use long irons to get to the quadrants on that green, just like everybody else"  He was preparing the course for the PGA Championship in 1991.
Now, I'm giving you the short version.  I wouldn't say it was a tirade, but, clearly, there was no love lost for the PGA Tour Pros.  I suspect that his design of the TPC at Sawgrass in 1980 and the controversy and criticisms from the PGA Tour Pros that followed were at the heart of his angst.
I think there was a love-hate relationship with the PGA Tour Pros that emerged, as Tom described.

Crooked Stick also employed sleepers, so 20 years after Harbour Town he was still introducing them.

[Matthew Essig]

This would be my top 10:


1.  The Ocean Course at Kiawah
2.  The Golf Club
3.  Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
4.  Harbour Town
5.  Long Cove
6.  Honors Course
7.  Pete Dye Golf Club
8.  TPC Sawgrass
9.  Whistling Straits
10.  The Fort (Indy)

Whistling Straits is pretty low. No Blackwolf?

I was thinking the same thing. I would put Blackwolf at #9, above Straits and below Sawgrass

WStraits is a far superior course to the River course at Blackwolf Run.

We will have to agree on disagreeing.

[Phil McDade]

This would be my top 10:


1.  The Ocean Course at Kiawah
2.  The Golf Club
3.  Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
4.  Harbour Town
5.  Long Cove
6.  Honors Course
7.  Pete Dye Golf Club
8.  TPC Sawgrass
9.  Whistling Straits
10.  The Fort (Indy)

Whistling Straits is pretty low. No Blackwolf?

I was thinking the same thing. I would put Blackwolf at #9, above Straits and below Sawgrass

WStraits is a far superior course to the River course at Blackwolf Run.

We will have to agree on disagreeing.

How about making the case for the River being better than WStraits?

[TEPaul]

I'm not sure how Pete Dye felt about it in the past but I can tell you one evolution for him might be this increased green speed. It is really ticking him off, particularly when he and others have to constantly go back and alter green contours on which putting has gotten out of control.