"The decline of the game as we know it...."

[David Ober]

Is that how many of you on this site feel about golf?

If so, I pity you. Golf, as it is played today, is a great, great game. It still rewards everything it did in the past, just in a slightly different way. It still rewards power, finesse, touch, imagination, hand-eye coordination, stamina, mental toughness, dedication, patience, and strength of character.

To me, that's what golf is, was, and always will be about. That, and kicking other golfers' asses. ;-)

Try to remember that. :-)

[Garland Bayley]

David,

I have to wonder whether if the ball were rolled back in distance, would gof reward you more than it does now?
You can answer both in the % winning sense, and in the feel good sense.

[David Ober]

David,

I have to wonder whether if the ball were rolled back in distance, would gof reward you more than it does now?
You can answer both in the % winning sense, and in the feel good sense.

Interesting question, and I can honestly tell you that it wouldn't make any difference to me one way or the other. Golf, to me, is a soul-satisfying experience due to the inherent nature of center-face contact. Nothing in all of sport feels like a well-struck, well-executed golf shot. Nothing's even close, in my opinion.

Whether the ball goes 170 with my 7-iron or 152, it doesn't matter -- it still feels amazing when you flush one and send it on its way to its target....

[Garland Bayley]

I understand you feel good about the game. So much so it seems you will accept less winning with the longer ball. Or, at least that is the way your answer reads to me, which of course confuses me after you write about being a competitive person.

[David Ober]

I understand you feel good about the game. So much so it seems you will accept less winning with the longer ball. Or, at least that is the way your answer reads to me, which of course confuses me after you write about being a competitive person.

How far the ball goes and how long the driver can be and the COR and the CC of my dirver and how long the courses are are things that are out of my control.

I try to not fret about things that are out of my control.

I enjoy this game way, way to much to let anything get in the way of that enjoyment, and fretting and worrying about the state of the game and equipment issues and such would just diminish my enjoyment of the game -- as it's played today. I do, after all, live today....

[DMoriarty]

Interesting question, and I can honestly tell you that it wouldn't make any difference to me one way or the other. Golf, to me, is a soul-satisfying experience due to the inherent nature of center-face contact. Nothing in all of sport feels like a well-struck, well-executed golf shot. Nothing's even close, in my opinion.

Whether the ball goes 170 with my 7-iron or 152, it doesn't matter -- it still feels amazing when you flush one and send it on its way to its target....

If this is the case - if it truly doesn't matter - then why not roll back the ball if only to preserve our great courses?  

[David Ober]

Interesting question, and I can honestly tell you that it wouldn't make any difference to me one way or the other. Golf, to me, is a soul-satisfying experience due to the inherent nature of center-face contact. Nothing in all of sport feels like a well-struck, well-executed golf shot. Nothing's even close, in my opinion.

Whether the ball goes 170 with my 7-iron or 152, it doesn't matter -- it still feels amazing when you flush one and send it on its way to its target....

If this is the case - if it truly doesn't matter - then why not roll back the ball if only to preserve our great courses?  

I would have no problem with that, but I don't concern myself with that kind of thing. I play golf. Today.

Interestingly, though, what would happen to all of the new courses that are 7,428 yards long?! :-)

[Garland Bayley]

I assume then you don't fret about the courses you play on. Any old track will do.

Or, do you prefer courses with more variety and diversity?

[David Ober]

I assume then you don't fret about the courses you play on. Any old track will do.

Or, do you prefer courses with more variety and diversity?

I find something to like about (almost) every course I play. The feeling of hitting the ball solidly and making the ball do what I'm intending it to do is what brings me the most pleasure. If I'm doing that on a great golf course, then so much the better.

If I had to rank things regarding my enjoyment of golf, I'd rank them this way:

1) The feeling of hitting a good shot

2) Am I competing with someone while doing it

3) The quality of the golf course I'm playing

4) The surroundings of the golf course I'm playing

5) The people I'm playing with

[Garland Bayley]

"on a great course, then so much the better."

I hope then you would agree that variety and diversity are part of great courses. For the most part, great courses are not made of parallel fairways running back and forth next to each other.

The place I have been trying to steer this towards is that they have taken some of the variety and diversity out of how the ball reacts to being struck by the club. If you prefer they don't take variety and diversity out of the courses, why would you not be concerned when they do that to the ball.

As for fretting about any of this while playing the game, I doubt many here really do that. That is what the website is for, fretting.

[David Ober]

David,

I have to wonder whether if the ball were rolled back in distance, would gof reward you more than it does now?
You can answer both in the % winning sense, and in the feel good sense.

In thinking this over more, Garland, I think I would "win" more (not that I've ever won much to begin with), but I think I would finish higher if the ball were rolled back and distance was less of an advantage. I hit my wedges up to 7-iron very well, and I have a solid, solid short game from 50 yards and in. I can't take advantage of the par 5's, though, like the younger, stronger players, and the difference in distance between a moderate length golfer like myself and a long hitter has gotten pretty extreme. I don't know that there's any way to combat that without rolling back the ball.

So, in re-thinking things: Yes, I'd like the ball to be rolled back. LOL!!!!

[DMoriarty]

I would have no problem with that, but I don't concern myself with that kind of thing. I play golf. Today.

Interestingly, though, what would happen to all of the new courses that are 7,428 yards long?! :-)

Well this is after all a website about golf courses, isn't it?  

I don't care much about the courses that are 7,428 yards.  They weren't built with most golfers in mind anyway.  Let the back tees go to native.  

[Garland Bayley]

David,

I have to wonder whether if the ball were rolled back in distance, would gof reward you more than it does now?
You can answer both in the % winning sense, and in the feel good sense.

In thinking this over more, Garland, I think I would "win" more (not that I've ever won much to begin with), but I think I would finish higher if the ball were rolled back and distance was less of an advantage. I hit my wedges up to 7-iron very well, and I have a solid, solid short game from 50 yards and in. I can't take advantage of the par 5's, though, like the younger, stronger players, and the difference in distance between a moderate length golfer like myself and a long hitter has gotten pretty extreme. I don't know that there's any way to combat that without rolling back the ball.

So, in re-thinking things: Yes, I'd like the ball to be rolled back. LOL!!!!

 

[Dan King]

There are two things I miss from golf of yesteryear:

• Years ago when you went to golf you played golf. Now it is much more waiting. This was partially due to the golf boom of the 1990s, but it is also because it brought in many inconsiderate golfers who have no concept of the etiquette of golf.
• I miss the strategy of the game. It used to be that careful thought could give a golfer an advantage against the non-thinkers. It used to take some skill to determine different green speeds, how to best approach a hole, how to pay attention to the surroundings, etc... Now, golf has gone from a game of chess to a game of checkers. U.S. golf has tried to republicanize golf, with everyone starting out on equal footing and whoever can hit the best quality shots should win. With modern equipment, GPS devices and golf courses that go to great lengths to eliminate local knowledge, there really is very little strategy to consider while playing golf.

Golf is still an interesting game. As long as it is played outdoors the powers-that-be will never be able to turn it into a strictly a physical game, but it won't stop them from trying. As interesting as golf is today, it could be so much better if it ever gets away from people trying to turn it into an American sport.

Cheers,
Dan King

Golf is deceptively simple, endlessly complicated. A child can play it well, and a grown man can never master it. Any single round if it is full of unexpected triumphs and seemingly perfect shots that end in disaster. It is almost a science, yet it is a puzzle without an answer. It is gratifying and tantalizing, precise and unpredicatable. It requires complete concentration and total relaxation. It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening - and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented.
  --Robert Forgan

[Alex Miller]

I agree with David Ober, though honestly I mostly only know the game in its most modern form. Does anyone pity me?

I actually would not have minded the game with old technology and would love to play with old clubs sometime. I don't like the look of loft on club faces (I just swapped out my 5-wood for a 2 iron) and I can shape shots pretty well even with the modern ball, but I don't understand how playing golf now-a-days can be looked on as any worse than another time period.

Like David O. said, golf is about beating your fellow man at a game of whack-a-ball around a (sometimes) strategic playing ground. And really, you don't need a playing partner to enjoy it!

[Garland Bayley]

David,

What do you play? Blades or cavity backs? Should we pursue this issue too?

[JMEvensky]

• Years ago when you went to golf you played golf. Now it is much more waiting. This was partially due to the golf boom of the 1990s, but it is also because it brought in many inconsiderate golfers who have no concept of the etiquette of golf.

I agree and think that this might be the ur-problem.

As has been said many times on this website,it seems that those who took up the game late for business/social reasons,never were taught the basic etiquette we learned as kids.Now,it's too late to teach them--there's more of them than us.

BTW--have you ever considered publishing your own book of quotations?You've got Bartlett's beat all to hell.

[Phil McDade]

David,

What do you play? Blades or cavity backs? Should we pursue this issue too?

All modern equipment, even down to the Bushnell:

http://www.amateurgolf.com/players/davidober

[Tommy Williamsen]

My post probably does not directly answer the question, but it does speak to a dilemma that many of us have with the game today.

For the first few years I played I used old Hickories.  Then moved to Bobby Jones Spaulding woods and irons that I worked weeks to purchase.  I played with the old K28 and when I found a Titleist i was thrilled and kept it safe it like a small round treasure. Eventually, I bought my dream set: Haig Ultra irons and MacGregor Tourney persimmon woods.  I now have the latest and greatest clubs and balls.  Do I enjoy the game less?  Absolutely not. Am I a better played?  Given my age, probably. It isn't the equipment that has changed my love of the game, it is the playing grounds.

Until about 30 years ago I was just happy to be on any golf course.  They all held a challenge.  Keep the ball in play off the tee, hit it on the green, and try to wiggle it into the hole.  Then I began to play and join top tier golf courses.  Now it isn't the thrill of playing that gets my blood pulsating, it is the thrill of playing excellent tests of golf.  It isn't even whether or not they are rated highly.  I recently turned down a game on a top 100 course because I just don't like it.  I hate this part of what Ive become.  I also don't know how to overcome it.

[John Kavanaugh]

David,

What do you play? Blades or cavity backs? Should we pursue this issue too?

All modern equipment, even down to the Bushnell:

http://www.amateurgolf.com/players/davidober

I don't believe for a second that David uses a stock shaft in his driver.  I'm betting on a Graphite Design Tour AD DI-6S shaft.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tommy,
You say that you still enjoy the game as much as you always have, so preferring better courses is mostly evolution. I hit 60 this past year and realized that there's no sense wasting golf time at places that don't hold my interest. I don't think that's going to change for me in the future so I just go with the flow.

    

[David Ober]

David,

What do you play? Blades or cavity backs? Should we pursue this issue too?

All modern equipment, even down to the Bushnell:

http://www.amateurgolf.com/players/davidober

I don't believe for a second that David uses a stock shaft in his driver.  I'm betting on a Graphite Design Tour AD DI-6S shaft.

I need to update my profile.... :-)

[Ronald Montesano]

Is any course that much easier for the average golfer? If it is, go back a deck. If it is still easy, play forged irons and a soft ball. If it is still too easy, join the Navy SEALS.

[Jim Nelson]

David,

I have to wonder whether if the ball were rolled back in distance, would gof reward you more than it does now?
You can answer both in the % winning sense, and in the feel good sense.

Interesting question, and I can honestly tell you that it wouldn't make any difference to me one way or the other. Golf, to me, is a soul-satisfying experience due to the inherent nature of center-face contact. Nothing in all of sport feels like a well-struck, well-executed golf shot. Nothing's even close, in my opinion.

Whether the ball goes 170 with my 7-iron or 152, it doesn't matter -- it still feels amazing when you flush one and send it on its way to its target....

I agree for us mortals.  That's as close as I am going to come to what is probably the best of the best.  Willie Mays would probably rate hitting a fast ball off Sandy Koufax over the wall in deep center field in Dodger Stadium higher, but how much better?  I would imagine a lot. 

[Carl Nichols]

• Years ago when you went to golf you played golf. Now it is much more waiting. This was partially due to the golf boom of the 1990s, but it is also because it brought in many inconsiderate golfers who have no concept of the etiquette of golf.

I agree and think that this might be the ur-problem.

Are there empirical data that support the concept that rounds are so much longer these days?  I'm not suggesting it's not the case, and I've certainly experienced some long rounds in the last few years, but when I reflect on my experience growing up playing a mid-size town's muni in the 1980's, I remember lots and lots of waiting on weekends -- much more waiting than I do currently.