[Tom Ferrell]

Just returned from a whirlwind trip to Bandon.  Flew from Denver to PDX on Sunday night and arrived at Bandon at midnight.  All 85 holes over the next three days.  Drove back to PDX for a 6:50 flight yesterday.  Made it with one minute to spare.  Thoughts are still jumbled, but I think quasi-coherent.  I will post more thoughts about the specific courses, but first, the experience.  

1.  Next time I will fly into Eugene.  Didn't even really consider it this time (d'oh!).  I LOVED the drive from I-5 over to 101, along the Umpqua River.  Incredible scenery and natural beauty.  Saw a bald eagle hit the river and come up with a fish.  



I'd choose this opeion at its 2.5 hour drive over a flight into North Bend.  But Portland was a real haul on such a tight schedule.

2.  Mike Keiser is one of the true visionaries in golf history, up there with Old Tom Morris and C.B. MacDonald in terms his evangelist zeal and his commitment to opening the greatest the game has to offer to the largest number of people.  It is remarkable to me that a resort that opened in 1999 is today the top golf resort in America.  Certainly it's not cheap to go to Bandon, but I love the lack of pretension and traditional "luxury."  The entire way the resort is laid out, maintained, marketed and expanded is sustainable and understated.  Awesome.

3.  After arriving at midnight and checking into a Chrome Lake loft, I got up well before my 10:50 Monday tee time and strolled the pleasant trail around Chrome Lake to the labyrinth built in Howard McKee's honor.  It ends at a labyrinth in a forest clearing where you might look for leprachauns and hobbits.  I spent a tranformative half-hour walking the labyrinth, a replica of the one in Chartres, France.  I can't articulate the effect of the experience.  Prior to seeing a single golf hole, Bandon had become my favorite golf destination in the world.  Do NOT miss the opportunity to see the labyrinth at Bandon - it cements the place as a real "power" spot, and its connection to the metaphors and realities of links golf is something you will ponder during your entire visit.



4.  Each of the Bandon's five golf courses offers a different expression of the game.  The oceanside holes at Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes are dramatic and inspiring, of course, but the peacefulness and seclusion of a round at Trails is its own joy.  And the Preserve reminds the golfer that FUN is an integral part of the game as well.  What a great complement to the resort's four heavyweights.

5.  Old MacDonald stands among the very best courses in the game.  Bandon Dunes, in my mind, is far underrated; conversely, I believe Pacific Dunes to be overrated.  Bandon Trails has the best green complexes at the facility and if it had one or two oceanside holes, the public perception of it would be totally different.  Loved it.

I know this is an architechture forum.  Much more to come, but you have start at the beginning, right?

  

[Tom Ferrell]

If I had 10 rounds at Bandon (excluding the two warm-ups/wind-downs at the Preserve)...

4 @ Old Mac:  After a somewhat pedestrian opening, the course kicks into high gear.  Number 3 (Sahara) is all-world.  Blind tee shot over the ridge to the greatest fairway I've ever played.  5- 16 is a highlight reel of great holes.  The green at the short 5th (Short) is specatcular, the green creating a visual of waves rolling in.  I loved the interpretation of the Road Hole (#10), the short 4 13th (Maiden) is a masterpiece, as is the duo of #15 (Westward Ho!) and #16 (Alps). 17 (Littlestone) seems to be the weak link in the bunch, mainly because with the prevailing wind the options - left off the tee or challenge the fairway bunkers - are rendered somewhat meaningless:  aim left and bomb it.  Still have a short-iron second.  The 18th (Punchbowl) with the noses in front of the green is a wonderful finishing hole.  My playing companion rolled in a 45-foot bomb for birdie to end our trip, and he will relish it forever, as will I.  Just a great day on the links.

3 @ Bandon Dunes:  Great, natural feel to the layout.  Nothing forced.  4 and 5 are an incredible pairing of par-4s.  The fourth features one of the best reveals in golf as you come around the dogleg and see the skyline green with the ocean backing it.  The course is plenty challenging, but does not often torment the golfer.  Great links experience.  Not heavy-handed, but allowing for the inherent looseness that consistent 25 mph winds create.

2 @ Bandon Trails:  So many great holes.  Would have loved another transition into the dunes (or even 2), but the forested holes are fantastic.  Still lots of ground game.  I didn't have the strong sentiments against the 14th that others have.  Tough, but lots of ways to skin the cat.  Par 3s are beautiful.  Par 5s may be the best at Bandon.  I asked all the course pros to name their favorite track at the resort, and Bandon Trails won the survey handily - and surprisingly.

1 @ Pacific Dunes: This could certainly change over time, but I felt the presence of the architect time and again.  The bunkering, while spectacular visually, sometimes felt forced in terms of severity.  Internal contours of greens seemed at times repellant rather than tied into the surrounds to create a cohesive green complex.  LOVED the par-4 second, the par-5 third, the par-4 ninth and the spectacular par-3 11th.  Thirteen is one of the great par-4s in the world.  But the recurrent falloffs abundance of penal features and hazards got in the way of the fun factor for me.  I was eager to love this course, and like I say, I look forward to my return to it.  But I didn't love it the way I expected to on this first visit.  

[Jud_T]

Tom,

Glad you enjoyed it.  It's a special place.  So much for group-think.  You may be the only guy here who has 3-1 rounds in favor of BD vs. PD!

[Tom Ferrell]

Tom,

Glad you enjoyed it.  It's a special place.  So much for group-think.  You may be the only guy here who has 3-1 rounds in favor of BD vs. PD!

I don't like the par-5 13 at BD at all.  And my jury is out on 17 and 18.  But beyond that, the fun factor at Bandon Dunes was high and mighty for me.  My traveling companion is a little older than me and a good deal shorter off the tee (but a solid 12).  BD was extremely playable for both of us, although we played quite differently.  Same with OM and BT.  But at Pacific, he found himself in many severely penal situations - meaning punishing hazards very much in play for shorter hitters, even when there was no apparent strategic value in them.  I like links golf for the fun - the ground game, the creativity.  The severity of the greens at PD actually hindered the ground game in many cases, I thought. 

I want to love PD like everyone else does!  Help me get there!  Do I have a problem? 

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

Glad you enjoyed it.  It's a special place.  So much for group-think.  You may be the only guy here who has 3-1 rounds in favor of BD vs. PD!

Jud,

I was thinking the same.  But then again, many GCA.com guys have said when they go on trips to Bandon with thier buddies that Bandon Dunes is thier favorite course over the other 3.

However, I would take issue with Bandon Dunes feeling "natural" and Pacific Dunes conversely having a constant "presence of the architect".  I can't think of much that would be less accurate as those two course compare to each other.

Tom F,

Would you like to take a stab at which parts of PD were touched in terms of major earth moving and which parts were left as is?

[Tom Ferrell]

Oh, I didn't feel there was lots of major earth moving that went on.  But I do think there was significant shaping in the bunkering and the green complexes.  I will grant you, for sure, that the terrain at PD is steeper and more broken than that at BD.  And please note that I am NOT saying that there *was* more man-made architecture at PD than at BD necessarily.  I'm simply saying that I felt it there. 

I fully expect that PD is a course that will grow on me over time.  And if you read my first-look assessment of it, you'll see that there is lots that I love about it.  Maybe I'm not expressing myself well, and maybe my expectations of it were just too high.  I have yet to sit down and go over my specific notes.  Am writing first impressions based on my golf experience there.

Few places in golf are as spectacular as PD.  Tom Doak created a stern test, and I can appreciate that.  My only hesitation is that it may be too stern at times for its environment.  It's the most beautiful of all the sisters, but she has a kick to her!  That's all I'm saying.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:

No one should fault you for your opinions, but there may be many who disagree.

From what I gathered, you played each once.  Interesting to see if your take on the four courses changes after a second or third visit.  The respect for Bandon Dunes and the head scratching over Pacific seems fairly common for someone who has only played each once.  Not trying to denigrate your analysis, just wondering if your thoughts might change with added experiences.

Sven

Edit:  Looks like you snuck a response in while I was typing this.  Think you already recognize the point I'm getting at.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom F,

Not a problem...I was mostly just curious as to how you formed your opinion because BD feels much more manufactured with the pot bunkers and containment mounding, while PD looks far more natural with the blowout bunkers and flowing fairways.

Now sure, its obvious the bunkers in the 3rd fairway at PD were put there, but to me they still look like they belong because they match the look and feel of the other blowout ones (which are naturally occurring on the site).

[Michael George]

I think Tom is entirely right about one thing.  Bandon Dunes is the most playable course on the property for every handicap.  Pacific Dunes is the hardest for the high handicap.  I liked Pacific Dunes better, but every high handicapper on my trip liked Bandon Dunes better.

I think playability is really important to some people.

[Jud_T]

Am I missing something?  I'm not sure I understand the playability issue at Pac Dunes and there aren't a lot of people lining up to attest to the strength of my game.  Obviously the wind you encounter factors in hugely at each of the courses.  If anything the one beef our last group had was that the greens at Old Mac were running too fast for the stern winds we faced.  I've played Pac Dunes in both completely benign conditions as well as a gale.  I don't recall it being particularly more penal than BD in a 30 mph wind.  17 at BD is more penal than anything at PD for starters.  For instance, some may say that #6 at PD isn't that playable for a high handicap.  Well that might be the best hole on the course and it takes a really bad tee shot to lose a ball there.  If someone is playing tight fescue lies for the first time and hasn't developed the necessary shots around the green, well that's simply local knowledge.

[JLahrman]

Am I missing something?  I'm not sure I understand the playability issue at Pac Dunes and there aren't a lot of people lining up to attest to the strength of my game.  Obviously the wind you encounter factors in hugely at each of the courses.  If anything the one beef our last group had was that the greens at Old Mac were running too fast for the stern winds we faced.  I've played Pac Dunes in both completely benign conditions as well as a gale.  I don't recall it being particularly more penal than BD in a 30 mph wind.  17 at BD is more penal than anything at PD for starters.  For instance, some may say that #6 at PD isn't that playable for a high handicap.  Well that might be the best hole on the course and it takes a really bad tee shot to lose a ball there.  If someone is playing tight fescue for the first time and hasn't developed the necessary shots around the green, well that's simply local knowledge.

Disclaimer: I've only played Bandon Dunes once and Pac Dunes twice.

My one round at Bandon Dunes, on #17 I hit my tee shot left of the fairway (on purpose, for once) and had a wedge in with the hazard off to the right instead of having to go over it (which is where it is if you hit your tee shot up the fairway). Easy peasy. I didn't really care for the hole.

By contrast, in my two rounds at Pac Dunes I saw two pretty good players take Xs on #6. No you won't lose a ball, but if you go left at all it's extremely easy to put up a big number.

[Jud_T]

JL,

No question one can put up a big number on PD #6.  This may be a hole that one needs to play several times to develop at least a bit of comfort with.  There's perhaps no more satisfying up and down than from over the green on #6 IMO.

[Keith Phillips]

My second trip to Bandon is in three weeks so I'm pumped and excited to re-assess my observations from a trip almost a decade ago when only two courses were open - I'm an 'erratic 12' and found PD far more penal than BD off the tee - not sure which course I 'preferred' but I seem to remember shooting low-80s at Bandon and mid-90s at Pacific, so you can imagine which I favored - it was a long time ago and I may post if I have a fresh perspective after my early-June trip.

[JLahrman]

JL,

No question one can put up a big number on PD #6.  This may be a whole that one needs to play several times to develop at least a bit of comfort with.  There's perhaps no more satisfying up and down than from over the green on #6 IMO.

One of the Xs in question came from a guy who can really bomb it off the tee. I saw him take out a driver. I thought to myself "One way or another, this is going to get interesting." It did.

I actually had good birdie looks on #6 both rounds, as a result of two perfectly placed 3-woods off the tee (those of you who have played with me know that "perfectly placed tee shots" is not my calling card). My line to the green for the approach was exactly parallel with the length of the green, and I just bumped a wedge up each time. The green is so narrow, I can't imagine trying to come in from any other angle.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I think Tom is entirely right about one thing.  Bandon Dunes is the most playable course on the property for every handicap.  Pacific Dunes is the hardest for the high handicap.  I liked Pacific Dunes better, but every high handicapper on my trip liked Bandon Dunes better.

I think playability is really important to some people.

I agree that BD is probably the most playable for every handicap at the resort, but not sure I agree that PD is the hardest...

Taking the weather out of it (which I realize you can't do) - I would maybe put BT as the most challenging for the high handicap golfer.

While I think PD requires some exacting shots throughout the round for the high handicapper - approach to #4, approach to #6, tee shot to #9 upper, approach to #13, approach to #16, and 18 from tee to green - I think in general there is quite a bit of room out there, especially on the par 5's.

I think BT is especially challenging at times and think the greens have more internal contours that PD.  I also think the finish at BT is especially difficult. I don't have scorecards in front of me, but think BT is a little longer is well from the comparable 'high-handicapper' tees...

[Michael George]

Old Macdonald may  be harder than Pacific Dunes in the wind.

In terms of Bandon Dunes v. Pacific Dunes, I think these are the differences:

1.  There is more room to hit it off the tee on Bandon Dunes.  At Pacific, #1 - can't miss right or left, #2 shoe bunker, #4 left bunker narrows landing area, #9 is very tight if you want to stay on top of the ridge (otherwise, the ball rolls down the huge hill left).  At Bandon, #9 is a tight driving hole, but really easy after that and #17 is a tight driving hole, but that is about it.  Every other hole has a lot of room out there.

2.  The green complexes are more severe at Pacific Dunes.  At Pacific, #3, #6, #11 and #16 leave hardly any room to miss your approach and are really penal if you do miss it.  A bad golfer may have a hard time finishing any of the holes.  At Bandon, #15 is the most penal and it is not as bad as any of the holes I mentioned above.

I think both courses are very playable.  Just think Bandon is more playable than Pacific.  And this is coming from a guy that liked Pacific Dunes much better than Bandon Dunes.  

[Ben Sims]

I am surprised at the distillation of our analytical abilities down to an argument over difficulty.  There is so much more to those golf courses than which one is easier for the high handicapper.

And by the way, before the gorse removal, the approach shot on #5 on BD was as hard as it gets at the resort.  Check that, the tee shot on #15 at BD was harder.

High handicappers like BD on their first trip because it looks closest to what they see every weekend.  Pac Dunes and Old Mac are so off the charts different compared to typical American golf that I really think people don;t know how to react.

[Tom Ferrell]

There are clearly a lot of factors that go into an evaluation of any golf course, especially when you are playing the course once. Truthfully, walking without clubs and watching other people play is probably a better way to get an objective and accurate perspective.  That said, we are talking about two beautiful, challenging and extraordinary courses.  Both have incredible strengths and weaknesses.

I do not think Bandon Dunes looks anything like what most people play on Saturdays.  It's a fun golf course that makes some allowances, and the hazards are generally less penal, much of which may owe to the property it's on.  Pacific Dunes has much more challenging and rugged terrain, and it is very true that Tom and his team did not disturb it to any great degree - huge compliments on the result.  It's breathtaking and diverse.  Options abound, and the severity of the greens and surrounds produces a tangible result on the choice and execution.

I and my friend on this trip have played many great links courses in Scotland and Ireland.  We both love the imagination required, the ground game, the movement of the dunes and terrain and indeed the wind.  Tom had a true vision and it shows on all fronts.  And it calls  for precise play.  Can't wait to get back at it!

The golf courses are all great ones, all deserving of multiple rounds in multiple conditions.  In my mind, at least today, Old Mac wins out for the pure fun factor.  I could play it every day and be one happy camper.  And that's also where we encountered by far the strongest wind. 

My overall message is intended to be one of huge admiration for Mr. Keiser and all the archies who brought this mecca to life.  We are lucky to have reasonable access to not one, but four - five! -  golf courses that can occupy our minds and conversations for years to come. 

 

[Brad Isaacs]

I think Tom is entirely right about one thing.  Bandon Dunes is the most playable course on the property for every handicap.  Pacific Dunes is the hardest for the high handicap.  I liked Pacific Dunes better, but every high handicapper on my trip liked Bandon Dunes better.

I think playability is really important to some people.

I would say that Old Mac is the most playable by the most people, more strategic generally, and as fun as golf can be.  The bet arguments against this, I suppose, would be holes 3, & 7. But Bandon has 3, 15, and beautiful 16 that envoke a requirement to make a shot. Please don't say that Bandon is easy, just go to the tips and play it. Another genius of the complex is the "tee it up" aspect of the courses. They generally set short tees and everyone plays a little faster and has more fun than the grind from the tips.

[Jud_T]

For reference, BD has a higher rating and slope from the gold, green or black tees than PD.  From the green tees that most would play, PD has a 133 slope and BD is 139, a fairly significant difference.

[Ben Sims]

I'm sure you didn't want to get bogged down in defending one course over the other, Tom. Where do the courses rank amongst your best played?

Come on Brian, really?  Tom F starts a thread comparing one course to another on the most talked about resort on this site and you think he really  expected it to remain just a rudimentary golf clap for Mike Keiser (which he deserves far more than)? 

That's what is so fun about Bandon is that we can discuss those golf courses until the cows come home.  I for one think Bandon Dunes is the clear #4 at the resort.  I think it is Paula Deen vs. the other three course's Thomas Keller.  Both taste good, but one is certainly more accomplished than the other. 

[Tom Ferrell]

Well, Ben, my thread wasn't really designed to compare and contrast the courses.  I'm willing to do it, but the experience is still settling out in my mind.  My thread was to give my first impressions of my experience, and frankly it is helping me to sort and organize them, in which case I will more closely evaluate the architecture. 

I do not share your view that BD is a "clear number four."  I saw a clear number one in Old Mac, with three great courses behind it.  I said in my initial 10-rounds post that I would play three at BD, 2 at BT and 1 at PD.  In hindsight, I might amend that to 4/2/2/2.  I thoroughly enjoyed all of them.

Also, I grew up in Georgia, and I love Paula Deen (do not miss The Lady and Sons restaurant in Savannah!) as well as Thomas Keller. 

[William_G]

I think Tom is entirely right about one thing.  Bandon Dunes is the most playable course on the property for every handicap.  Pacific Dunes is the hardest for the high handicap.  I liked Pacific Dunes better, but every high handicapper on my trip liked Bandon Dunes better.

I think playability is really important to some people.

I agree that BD is probably the most playable for every handicap at the resort, but not sure I agree that PD is the hardest...

Taking the weather out of it (which I realize you can't do) - I would maybe put BT as the most challenging for the high handicap golfer.

While I think PD requires some exacting shots throughout the round for the high handicapper - approach to #4, approach to #6, tee shot to #9 upper, approach to #13, approach to #16, and 18 from tee to green - I think in general there is quite a bit of room out there, especially on the par 5's.

I think BT is especially challenging at times and think the greens have more internal contours that PD.  I also think the finish at BT is especially difficult. I don't have scorecards in front of me, but think BT is a little longer is well from the comparable 'high-handicapper' tees...

I also think that Trails is the most challenging for the "low" handicap golfer, but as golf in general is challenging

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