Fairway Bunkers in the Rough

[Bill_McBride]

Our young superintendent has been shrinking our fairways   and creating a situation I'm not too crazy about.  Most of our fairway bunkers now have four to ten feet of rough, first cut, between the inside edge of the bunker and the short grass of the fairway.  I think this is wrong -- but would appreciate the input of the group.  What do you think?

[Willie_Dow]

Bunkers were never designed to be surrounded in rough.  Please find me one example!

[Chris Kane]

Absolutely terrible.  Bunkers in the rough - seemingly evident at a number of well-regarded courses including Merion - distort the design of the course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill McBride,

It will be interesting to see Tommy Naccarato's assessment of this condition at GCGC on tuesday.

A pet peeve that remains an impediment to playing the golf course as it was intended.

I posted a thread on this subject, under "Buffers" about a year or two ago.  If anyone knows how to run the search engine, please bring it back.

[Bill_McBride]

Patrick, are you saying that this condition prevails at Garden City as well?  If so, who made the decision to do so?  Thanks.

Actually, I just got home from a soggy round and turned on the Westchester.  It looks to me from the aerials that virtually every fairway bunker on the course has maybe one or two feet of rough between fairway cut and sand.  Maybe this is the new look!  

[Mike_Sweeney]

I posted a thread on this subject, under "Buffers" about a year or two ago.  If anyone knows how to run the search engine, please bring it back.

Here it is:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/YaBB.cgi?board=GD1&action=display&num=1027053864&start=21

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Bill,

I'm not a fan of growing in rought to protect bunkers either. That's one reason I thought Bethpage Black was not as good as most people seemed to think during the U.S. Open. The 18th was a perfect example. The hole was turned into a landing strip with the straight fairway and balls that should have bounded into sand found deep rough.

My question to you is, why is the superintendent doing this? Over the last two years the supers at the muni where I play have shrunk the fairways to reduce their pesticide costs. I hate the changes but they are understandable in light of his limited budget.

[Bill_McBride]

That's a good question and I intend to find out why.  I am a member of the greens committee, and according to the latest report we are under our budget numbers for pesticide and other chemicals.  I don't know the answer.  I do know our greens are very small with tricky angles and it's a lot more fun to play with maximum width.  Right now the Bermuda rough is thick and the course has never played tougher with its "incredible shrinking fairways."

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill McBride,

I'm not so sure that it's a conscious decision.

My GUESS is that the fellows running the equipment give the very deep and precipitous bunkers a wider berth when mowing out of fear and prudence.  I think that this is combined with the buffer factor that has gained popularity in the US, that some last ditch feature should save the golfer from a dire fate.

Over time, the condition, gradually gets worse and worse, without anybody noticing it until it's out of hand.

But, to rectify it, takes a one big effort, which would be very noticeable, and I think many resist fixing it because they don't like change in big chunks, and their frame of reference is that it's always been there, as if the architect intended it.

But, eternal vigilance is the price of greatness, and Superintendents and Green Chairman, if they are attentive to the golf course, should watch out for and fix this condition if it exists.

Most people never notice it.

But, on the left green side bunker on the 13th hole at GCGC you can really see how the fairway lines have been moved to accomodate this feature.  Unfortunately, the condition is pervasive.

[Bill_McBride]

That's what happening to our course too, Patrick.  Gradual shrinking of the fairways leaving the bunkers farther out in the rough.  But the last couple of months the fairway lines have been mowed even farther in, which I guess has really gained my attention.  This will not stand!  

[Willie_Dow]

Bill:
Stand your ground.  Wide open fairways give us options.  Keep that option alive!
An older player needs options!
Willie

[TEPaul]

One thing I must say about the Brian Silva restorations I've seen is whether he's doing what some might consider exact restorations or whether he's doing what some might consider a certain amount of "interpretation" at least he's getting a very good number of fairway bunkers "inside" the fairway lines and all those courses he's done play a lot better because of that than they did that I'm aware of before!

And I would very much say the same thing about Ron Prichard's recent Aronimink restoration.

[Bill_McBride]

Well, GCA is a great resource indeed.  I went out to the course this morning and took a brief tour with our superintendent, pointing out where I thought there was too wide a "buffer" of rough (to use Pat Mucci's phrase) - and how much better the course would play with wider fairways and no rough in front of the bunkers.  Then I took him into the office and logged onto GCA.  Showed him photos of some great courses (Royal Melbourne, The Old Course, Cuscowilla, Talking Stick, to mix it up) where there is little or no rough between bunker edge and fairway.  He got the picture (literally) and says he'll give it a go!  So many thanks to Ran and GCA for providing this resource.  He says he plans to dig deeper into the website for more information.

By the way, Greg came to us from Laurel CC in Laurel, Mississippi.  He says that course was designed by Seymour Dunn, son of Willy Dunn of Scotland, in 1909.  Anybody know anything of Seymour Dunn?  Greg says he designed several NYC area courses and then somehow made it to Mississippi.  I'd be interested in learning more.

[Mark_Fine]

Bill,
"Rough" bunkers as I call them along with soft approaches are two of my pet peeves.  They drive me crazy.  One of the main purposes of bunkers as we all know is to challenge the golfer, create risk/reward options.  A bunker sitting out in the rough rarely accomplishes that task.  Don't you just love a carry bunker that has rough growing all beyond it.  Makes great design sense doesn't it  
Mark

[Bill_McBride]

Agreed, Mark, fairway bunkers that are out of play in the rough are just a waste of maintenance budget.  I had a good session with our super today and I think he saw the light -- with the help of GCA's website and great photos of classic courses with fairway directly adjacent to fairway bunkers.  My fingers are crossed!  

[Bill_McBride]

If there was ever a graphic illustration of this lamentable practice -- allowing several yards of rough to grow between fairway edge and bunker edge -- it's Inverness.  I'm watching round 4 this Sunday afternoon and enjoying the Lietzke-Watson match, but man, those aerial TV shots are revealing of just how bad this is.  The fairway lines are all straight, the bunkers are all buried in the rough.  USGA setup or not, this looks bad.

[Pete Lavallee]

Bill;

I agree, the strategy of the terrain and fairway bunkers was made completely superfluous by the cut of the rough. The sad part is that the Club will surely want to maintain these lines when the USGA is gone. Does Inverness always play like this, or can the members use the contours or actually run into any of the fairway bunkers?