No one has ever Repeated as Player's Champion - why not?

[Jay Flemma]

We don't have to limit ourselves to just majors, I just used them for comparison to show there are back-to-back winners at certain intervals.  It's just odd that no one has done i at Sawgrass, not even Woods, who especially has a tendency to win back-to-back (and more) times at certain courses (Torrey, Bay Hill, etc.)

The question is why hasn't it happened at Sawgrass, and does the architecture have an effect on it.

[Sam Morrow]

We don't have to limit ourselves to just majors, I just used them for comparison to show there are back-to-back winners at certain intervals.  It's just odd that no one has done i at Sawgrass, not even Woods, who especially has a tendency to win back-to-back (and more) times at certain courses (Torrey, Bay Hill, etc.)

The question is why hasn't it happened at Sawgrass, and does the architecture have an effect on it.

I think it's got nothing to do with architecture, it will happen someday, just hasn't happened yet.

[Mark Pritchett]

No one has won back to back at Quail Hollow, must be the architecture. 

[Jay Flemma]

...and how many years have they played at Quail Hollow? Since 2003.  That is a young tournament.

[Phil McDade]

No one has won back to back at Quail Hollow, must be the architecture.  

...and speaking of Quail Hollow (this is a blatant threadjack -- ignore the question if it strays too far afield):

Did anyone see anything in that pushover of a course that merits its consideration as a US Open venue, as has been discussed in several quarters? Three tied for the lead after 72 holes at -14, eight players at -10 or better, 50-some players bettering par. That's in line with....well.....Congressional last year, so I guess I've answered my own question.

I know it would be toughened up for a US Open, but seriously -- -14 for three players? The whole field, practically, that made the cut under par? Nice-looking course, sure, but worthy of an Open?

[Mark Pritchett]

It will be interesting to see how QH plays for the PGA in a few years.  Perhaps a former winner of the Wells Fargo will win it! 

[Carl Nichols]

No one has won back to back at Quail Hollow, must be the architecture.  

...and speaking of Quail Hollow (this is a blatant threadjack -- ignore the question if it strays too far afield):

Did anyone see anything in that pushover of a course that merits its consideration as a US Open venue, as has been discussed in several quarters? Three tied for the lead after 72 holes at -14, eight players at -10 or better, 50-some players bettering par. That's in line with....well.....Congressional last year, so I guess I've answered my own question.

I know it would be toughened up for a US Open, but seriously -- -14 for three players? The whole field, practically, that made the cut under par? Nice-looking course, sure, but worthy of an Open?

Will it be the first course to host a major that has a fake stream on 18?

[Mark Pritchett]

What difference does it make? 

[Carl Nichols]

What difference does it make? 

Probably none, although my post didn't suggest that it does. 

[George Pazin]

Is Barry Burn natural?

On a more serious note, I think it's mostly what Dan King says - rare things happen rarely (nice tautology) - and slightly the architecture, but only in the sense that there is a lot of water, and water tends to amplify things.

[Richard Choi]

We don't have to limit ourselves to just majors, I just used them for comparison to show there are back-to-back winners at certain intervals.  It's just odd that no one has done i at Sawgrass, not even Woods, who especially has a tendency to win back-to-back (and more) times at certain courses (Torrey, Bay Hill, etc.)

The question is why hasn't it happened at Sawgrass, and does the architecture have an effect on it.

Jay, that is just a matter of statistics.

Winning back to back is a pretty rare statistical event. A chances of that happening at a specific tournament is going to be very low. However, because you have so many tournaments (over so many years), the chance of that happening at ANY tournament in ANY year is pretty good.

It is kinda like winning a lottery. A chance for your to win a lottery is astronomically high. But a chance that someone will win a lottery is quite good because there are so many people buying the tickets.

The fact that Players has not won that lottery (like many many other events), does not mean that there is something special going on there.

[Jay Flemma]

You may be right, Richard. Maybe there is no architectural correlation, or maybe if there is one it's only slight. I'm just asking the question to see if there might be an equally interesting answer.

[Richard Choi]

Here is a rare architecture focused article about Players from MSM...

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/7907012/all-kinds-golfers-shot-tpc-sawgrass-players-championship

[Bruce Wellmon]

No one has won back to back at Quail Hollow, must be the architecture. 

...and how many years have they played at Quail Hollow? Since 2003.  That is a young tournament.

I'm showing my age but I lived in Charlotte from the late 60's thru high school. Back then, Quail hosted The Kemper Open tour event.
And if Wikipedia can be trusted...........
"The Booz Allen Classic was a regular golf tournament on the PGA Tour from 1968 to 2006.
Perhaps more so than any other "regular" PGA Tour stop, the event wandered about, not just from course to course within a given metropolitan area, but along the East Coast. Originally known as the Kemper Open, the inaugural event was played in 1968 at Pleasant Valley Country Club in Sutton, Massachusetts, before moving to the Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte, North Carolina the following year, where it stayed through 1979."
Winners include;

1979 Jerry McGee
1978 Andy Bean
1977 Tom Weiskopf
1976 Joe Inman
1975 Raymond Floyd
1974 Bob Menne
1973 Tom Weiskopf
1972 Doug Sanders
1971 Tom Weiskopf
1970 Dick Lotz
1969 Dale Douglass

[Jay Flemma]

Good find, Bruce. I had forgotten that.  Dan Jenkins said he once recalled that Quail was in the running for a US Open back then and he thought it would have been nice if they had gotten it.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Good find, Bruce. I had forgotten that.  Dan Jenkins said he once recalled that Quail was in the running for a US Open back then and he thought it would have been nice if they had gotten it.

Jay,   
     Growing up in Charlotte, we went to the event and walked parts of the course each year. I have played Quail twice, the first right after David Toms' victory. My member friend, says Fazio (I believe) transformed the course with his work, pre Wells Fargo/Quail Hollow/Wachovia Championship. I am surprised Quail was in the running for an Open back then. I don't remember anything special walking, but, not playing it. I was at Wake Forest in 1979, the last year of The Kemper. To show you my appreciation of golf architecture at the time, I never once, set foot on Old Town Club in Winston Salem during my 4 years at WFU. I have some great old pics of Kemper action. I was a photographer at Wake. One year they sent me to follow Curtis Strange, as a rookie, at Quail. My pics are all on slides, they are so old. Arnie, Chi Chi, Jim Simons, Andy Bean, that I can remember off the top of my head.

[Jay Flemma]

That's a great story, Bruce.  I got into Wake and was really impressed when I visited there (my parents were too!)  I remember how gorgeous the quad was, so years later, when Nancy and I were vacationing in NC and happened to be passing through, I suggested we check out the campus, so we went and walked around for a few hours.  She loved it too - I'll bet it was a great place to spend four years.  plus I love their school colors - same as my Pittsburgh Steelers.

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