[Adrian_Stiff]

The 2012 Golf World Rankings are released.

Key moves are: Royal County Down is the new number 1 and Trump National is a new entry at 8.
Castle Stuart was a big riser to 28. Wentworth dropped 10 places to number 33 so both Sunningdale courses and Walton Heth are preffered by the panel and the Red Berkshire is only a spot behind at 34. New entries are West Lancs #86  Sherwood Forest #93 Archerfeld #100.

[Niall C]

Adrian

Do you have a link to the list ?

Before criticising or applauding a list, I always like to see how Silloth is placed  .

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

Niall - Silloth is unchanged at 51. Sorry I dont have a link.

[Mark Chaplin]

Shame on Golf World if Trump Aberdeen is in the list as its not even open yet, I recall a course used to have to be at least 12 months old.
Sorry to be a pain Deal's position?

[Adrian_Stiff]

1   NEWCASTLE CO. DOWN
2   TURNBERRY
3   ROYAL BIRKDALE
4   MUIRFIELD
5   ROYAL PORTRUSH
6   ST ANDREWS OLD
7   SUNNINGDALE OLD
8   TRUMP NATIONAL
9   ROYAL DORNOCH
10   WATERVILLE
11   ROYAL LYTHAM & ST ANNES
12   CARNOUSTIE
13   WOODHALL SPA HOTCHKIN
14   LOCH LOMOND
15   ROYAL ST GEORGES
16   KINGSBARNS
17   PORTMARNOCK
18   THE EUROPEAN CLUB
19   BALLYBUNION OLD
20   WALTON HEATH OLD
21   ROYAL LIVERPOOL
22   SUNNINGDALE NEW
23   NAIRN
24   ROYAL TROON
25   LAHINCH OLD
26   GANTON
27   SAUNTON EAST
28   CASTLE STUART
29   ALWOODLEY
30   DOONBEG
31   NORTH BERWICK
32   COUNTY LOUTH
33   WENTWORTH WEST
34   THE BERKSHIRE RED
35   ST ENEDOC CHURCH
36   ROYAL ABERDEEN
37   PRESTWICK
38   WEST SUSSEX
39   FORMBY
40   ROYAL PORTHCAWL
41   GLENEAGLES KINGS
42   HILLSIDE
43   ROYAL CINQUE PORTS
44   HANKLEY COMMON
45   CRUDEN BAY
46   CARNE
47   WESTERN GAILES
48   MACHRIHANISH
49   ROYAL ST DAVIDS
50   ROSAPENNA
51   SILLOTH ON SOLWAY
52   SWINLEY FOREST
53   RYE
54   ST ANDREWS CASTLE
55   THE BERKSHIRE BLUE
56   WOBURN MARQUESS
57   ROYAL WEST NORFOLK
58   NOTTS
59   BLAIRGOWRIE ROSEMOUNT
60   BALLYLIFFIN GLASHEDY
61   GULLANE NO1
62   HUNSTANTON
63   ST GEORGES HILL
64   SKIBO
65   FERNDOWN
66   THE MACHRIE
67   RENAISSANCE
68   COUNTY SLIGO
69   THE ISLAND
70   OLD HEAD OF KINSALE
71   THE ADDINGTON
72   WENTWORTH EAST
73   ALDEBURGH
74   WALTON HEATH NEW
75   WOBURN DUKES
76   THE DONEGAL
77   LITTLE ASTON
78   MACHRIHANISH DUNES
79   BURNHAM & BERROW
80   WOKING
81   WORPLESDON
82   ENNISCRONE
83   ABERDOVEY
84   ADARE
85   SOUTHERNESS
86   WEST LANCASHIRE
87   BROADSTONE
88   REMEDY OAK
89   ROYAL ASHDOWN FOREST OLD
90   NEW ZEALAND
91   MOORTOWN
92   DUNDONALD
93   SHERWOOD FOREST
94   THE GROVE
95   LOUGH ERNE
96   BELFRY BRABAZON
97   SOUTHPORT & AINSDALE
98   TRALEE
99   CELTIC MANOR 2010
100   ARCHERFIELD FIDRA

[Mark Chaplin]

Interesting that Loch Lomond used to be as high as 4, world top 100 Machrihanish just slips into the top 50 in GB&I. As I said before Trump doesn't belong on this list until its open. There are plenty of moderate moderns just holding onto top 100 status.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Looks like a change in the panel. A lot of modern courses have been dropped out of the 200 (Ours - The Players Club has gone we were 113 in 2006) Its gone back to a lot of old fashioned ones, Huntercoombe, Beau Dessert, Pennard, Tain, Wallasey make the 200.

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian I'd say most of the top 50 or 60 are pretty well on with just positioning to argue about.

Nice to see The Addington creeping up.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Brian I think its pretty good overall- 9 out 10 would have Wentworth West much higher than SGH or SF. Wentworth at its new position of 33 is the lowest its ever been so the gap in yesteryears has been even greater. Overall I think its still the best list and most in the industry see it as the industry standard. The only 'strange one' to me is Trump's course at 8, on the surface it seems crazy hgh, that aside everyone seems to think it is amazing so I guess it is. Its nice to see Castle Stuart rise so much in this set and I would think the new 5 at Renaisaunce will see a a good move upwards.
It seems strange that Trump International is included when it is not open, if they have changed their rules which could be understandable given the few new courses then it seems Scott's course Close House would be over looked having not made the 200.

[Chris DeNigris]

Hmmm....any list that has the top 5 in Ireland as:

1. Waterville
2. Portmarnock
3. Euro Club
4. Ballybunion
5. Lahinch

Must have used ping pong balls sucked out of a spinning barrel to make the selections. 

Not to mention Doonbeg higher than NBerwick....

[Alex Lagowitz]

also Trump better than Dornoch?
Are they claiming trump to be a top 15 in the world course pre-opening?

Does not surprise me GOLF has the worst rankings considering they rank Trump Bedminister around 50 in the US and no other ranking system has them top 100.  Interesting. 

The Donald has his ways.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Hmmm....any list that has the top 5 in Ireland as:

1. Waterville
2. Portmarnock
3. Euro Club
4. Ballybunion
5. Lahinch

Must have used ping pong balls sucked out of a spinning barrel to make the selections.  

Not to mention Doonbeg higher than NBerwick....

Chris I'm with in you in spirit, but actually their top 5 in IRELAND are

RCD
Portrush
Waterville
Portmarnock
European Club




I can understand why Clubs are interested in these lists as it affects business,  but I give them about as much credence as I do the Rolling Stone top 500 albums of all time.   Before I listen to all of them I know there's a bunch of albums I'm never going to enjoy. Yes it might increase my awareness  of  one I hadn't heard of before, but I'm never going to make a purchase based solely on a list produced by a bunch of people I don't know.  And I do have to say that having "Playing the Top 100, Golf World, courses of 2012" on your bucket list, is about as fatuous an exercise as I can think of.

[Mac Plumart]

Is this the list that golfers (not specifcially raters) are asked to evaluate their experience at said courses?  If so, I love this list...as it shows what the average golfer likes vs. what the golf course architectural afficiando likes.  

If this is the list I think it is, this type of list might be good for a golf course investor/developer to analyze before building...assuming his driving goal is making a successful business venture.

[Niall Hay]

Hmmm....any list that has the top 5 in Ireland as:

1. Waterville
2. Portmarnock
3. Euro Club
4. Ballybunion
5. Lahinch

Must have used ping pong balls sucked out of a spinning barrel to make the selections.  

Not to mention Doonbeg higher than NBerwick....

Chris I'm with in you in spirit, but actually their top 5 in IRELAND are

RCD
Portrush
Waterville
Portmarnock
European Club
 

RCD and Portrush are in Northern Ireland.  Not the same country.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Hmmm....any list that has the top 5 in Ireland as:

1. Waterville
2. Portmarnock
3. Euro Club
4. Ballybunion
5. Lahinch

Must have used ping pong balls sucked out of a spinning barrel to make the selections.  

Not to mention Doonbeg higher than NBerwick....

Chris I'm with in you in spirit, but actually their top 5 in IRELAND are

RCD
Portrush
Waterville
Portmarnock
European Club
 

RCD and Portrush are in Northern Ireland.  Not the same country.

DOH!

You don't need to read past the first paragraph here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland

I know this as I have one parent from each state in Ireland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.  I was born in one and have lived longer in the other.  All the 7 courses listed above are on the island called IRELAND. End of lesson.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Hmmm....any list that has the top 5 in Ireland as:

1. Waterville
2. Portmarnock
3. Euro Club
4. Ballybunion
5. Lahinch

Must have used ping pong balls sucked out of a spinning barrel to make the selections.  

Not to mention Doonbeg higher than NBerwick....

Chris I'm with in you in spirit, but actually their top 5 in IRELAND are

RCD
Portrush
Waterville
Portmarnock
European Club
 

RCD and Portrush are in Northern Ireland.  Not the same country.

If we're going to get pedantic about the NI/RoI thing, it worth noting that Northern Ireland is not in GB (but NI is in the UK), so what are RCD and RP doing in the list?

Let's just stick with Ireland when referring to golf related topics.

[Niall Hay]

We'll agree to disagree. As would my friends in Belfast and Dublin. Back to golf...

Though I would agree that list of "Ireland" is poor. RCD and PR are superior to anything in the Republic of Ireland. Would put Ballybunion (Old), Portmarnock and Lahinch as top 3 there.

All 5 are world class and a ton of fun.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mac - no that is the dreadful Golf Monthly list. Golf World use tour pros, administrators, county union representatives, respected amateurs - Walker Cup captains, R&A people, etc. as Adrian says its the respected list over here.

[Matthew Hunt]

We'll agree to disagree. As would my friends in Belfast and Dublin.

There is no need to disagree, there is dual nationally for everyone in Northern Ireland of Ireland and the UK whether they like it or not. Golf is an all-island sport.

[Scott Warren]

As fond as I am of Hankley, 44th is ridiculous. That's a jump of about 30 places since 2008.

As is Trump's course debuting before it is open.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Is Waterville really that good? 

[Sean_A]

Its hard to get behind a list which (and there are more bad mistakes) has Nairn, Harlech & Hillside above Swinley, Rye and St Georges Hill. 

I am more interested in the 2nd 100 - can somebody list it?

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

ARCHERFIELD DIRLETON
ARDGLASS
ASHBURNHAM
ASHRIDGE
BALLYBUNNION CASHEN
BEARWOOD LAKES
BEAU DESERT
BELLEISLE
BLACKMOOR
BLACKWELL
BOAT OF GARTEN
BRORA
CARTON HOUSE MONTY
CASTLEROCK
CHART HILLS
CONNEMARA
COOMBE HILL
CRAIL BALCOMIE
CROWBOROUGH BEACON
DELAMERE FOREST
DOOKS
DOWNFIELD
DRUIDS GLEN
DRUIDS HEATH
DUNBAR
EAST SUSSEX NATIONAL WEST
FOTA ISLAND
FRASERBURGH
FRILFORD HEATH RED
FULFORD
GLASGOW GAILES
GLENEAGLES QUEENS
GOODWOOD
HAYLING
HINDHEAD
HUNTERCOMBE
IPSWICH
IRVINE
ISLE OF PURBECK
K CLUB
KILLARNEY KILLEEN
KILMARNOCK BARRASIE
KILSPINDIE
LADYBANK
LEVEN LINKS
LINDRICK
LIPHOOK
LITTLESTONE
LONGNIDDRY
LUFFENHAM HEATH
LUFFNESS
LUNDIN
MONIFIETH MEDAL
MONTROSE MEDAL
MORAY OLD
MOUNT JULIET
MURCAR
NAIRN DUNBAR
NEFYN & DISTRICT
PANMURE
PARKSTONE
PENNARD
PERRANPORTH
PORTMARNOCK LINKS
PORTPATRICK
PORTSTEWART
PRINCES
PYLE & KENFIG
QUEENWOOD
ROYAL DUBLIN
ROYAL NORTH DEVON
SAUNTON WEST
SCOTSCRAIG
SEACROFT
SEASCALE
SEATON CAREW BRABAZON
SHERINGHAM
SHISKINE
SOUTHERNDOWN
SPEY VALLEY
ST ANDREWS BAY KITTOCKS
ST ANDREWS BAY TORRANCE
ST ANDREWS DUKES
ST ANDREWS NEW
ST MELLION NICKLAUS
STOKE PARK
STONEHAM
TAIN
TANDRIDGE
TENBY
THE LONDON HERITAGE
THE ROXBURGHE
THE WISLEY
TREVOSE
TURNBERRY KINTYRE
WALLASEY
WEST HILL
WEST KILBRIDE
WISLEY
WOBURN DUCHESS

[jeffwarne]

I'd put Trump at #1.

keeps the clutter off the good stuff.

[Ally Mcintosh]

We'll agree to disagree. As would my friends in Belfast and Dublin. Back to golf...

Though I would agree that list of "Ireland" is poor. RCD and PR are superior to anything in the Republic of Ireland. Would put Ballybunion (Old), Portmarnock and Lahinch as top 3 there.

All 5 are world class and a ton of fun.

Niall, golf is all-island. Ireland is a land mass, not a country. However, I'd agree with the top 5 you list although I change the order of them daily.

I grew up with the Golf World list and always await its publication. As Mark and Adrian say, it is the pre-eminent list over here.

So, picking out a few isolated things that don't agree with me but hardly get me annoyed:

1. Trump at No.8 is a little ridiculous, not because it's not open but because it's so high with the majority of the panel surely having never played it more than once...

2. The Waterville trend is one I wouldn't go with but everyone away from this website seems to so it's not really surprising. Not 100% on Rosapenna Sandy Hills moving up so much either. And Doonbeg still heading northwards.

3. Agree with Scott that that's an amazing move for Hankley

Nice to see Renaissance making gradual moves up (the sign of a stayer) though... and to see Moortwon back on the list post Ken Moodie's work there...

I like golf course lists... I can't help it...

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