Unexpected Finds

[Tom MacWood]

Urbana CC, Ohio.

The first nine designed by Pete Dye's father; the modern nine designed by PD's son. A fascination course and a window into arguably America's greatest golf architect.

[Brad Wilbur]

It won't make a list of top courses (too short, too many almost drivable par fours), but Signal Mountain Golf & Country Club, in Signal Mountain, TN, is a lot of fun to play.  I spent two years there in jr. high school, and really enjoyed the course.  Playing there again over forty years later, I was struck by how the course demanded the golfer to work the ball both ways.  One of the dog legs on the back might find it's way into the "quirk" discussion.  It's a not too long par four with an elevated tee to a SEVERELY canted fairway to the right, and the hole angled equally severely to the left.

[PCCraig]

This is  the first I read this thread.  Upon reading the accounts of Keller in St Paul-White Bear Lake area, I started looking at it on Google earth and comparing Richard Mandell's site reno plan.  Note to self and anyone in TC interested: I MUST play that course before the remodel!!!  And, of course I can see that the remodeled plan depicts some very neat changes.  I have to see what the heck is the deal with that 4th hole with a tree that seems that it must be cleared -par 3.  Talk about quirk!  

RJ,

Make a trip over to the Twin Cities this summer and we can make a mini-outing out of it.

Keller is really interesting in its current form and certainly worth checking out. Plus it's close to the Blue Door Pub which would make for a perfect after-round snack.

[Tom_Doak]

Urbana CC, Ohio.

The first nine designed by Pete Dye's father; the modern nine designed by PD's son. A fascination course and a window into arguably America's greatest golf architect.

Tom:

I played the original nine many years ago.  What is the newer nine like?

For further insight into the Dyes, you should go and see Maxinkuckee GC in northern Indiana, the Bill Langford course where Mrs. Dye grew up playing golf.  It's easy to see that Alice and Pete had a lot in common.

[BCrosby]

Urbana CC, Ohio.

The first nine designed by Pete Dye's father; the modern nine designed by PD's son. A fascination course and a window into arguably America's greatest golf architect.

Tom:

I played the original nine many years ago.  What is the newer nine like?

For further insight into the Dyes, you should go and see Maxinkuckee GC in northern Indiana, the Bill Langford course where Mrs. Dye grew up playing golf.  It's easy to see that Alice and Pete had a lot in common.

I had no idea Dye grew up there. I assume his family had a summer cottage.

I've played the course several times. Back in the day it was unattended. You paid $2 green fees by putting your money through a slot in the maintenance shed.

Maxinkuckee is next door to the Culver course (also a Langford). Culver is the better course. I played it hundreds of times over four years at the Academy. I'd bet that a young Pete Dye also played the Culver course during summers.

Bob

[Pete Balzer]

Played Pine Dunes yesterday, was a bit skeptical, and was hoping it was worth the detour (driving from Longview to Colorado), it was! Great setting, low key, good shape, and a very enjoyable layout.

[Sam Morrow]

Played Pine Dunes yesterday, was a bit skeptical, and was hoping it was worth the detour (driving from Longview to Colorado), it was! Great setting, low key, good shape, and a very enjoyable layout.

So glad to hear you liked it Pete!

[Tom MacWood]

Urbana CC, Ohio.

The first nine designed by Pete Dye's father; the modern nine designed by PD's son. A fascination course and a window into arguably America's greatest golf architect.

Tom:

I played the original nine many years ago.  What is the newer nine like?

For further insight into the Dyes, you should go and see Maxinkuckee GC in northern Indiana, the Bill Langford course where Mrs. Dye grew up playing golf.  It's easy to see that Alice and Pete had a lot in common.

I wasn't aware Alice Dye grew up around Culver. I've not played Maxinkuckee although I have driven by it and checked it out. I have played Culver, and CA seemed to be on much more interesting terrain. What is it about Maxinkuckee that is interesting, quirky or compelling.

The newer nine is very sporty, but obviously in a more modern manner than the original. If I recall correctly there is shortish par-4 with a huge bolder in the middle of the fairway. That is one of the holes that stood out. You can tell a lot of thought went into the new nine. Like the original nine there are a number of very severe holes, very challenging but also fun and unusual. The sportiness and severity are similar with both nines, but there is also a very interesting contrast of styles. The original nine being more minimalistic and the newer nine more modern, PD-like.

[Pete Blaisdell]

At the US Amateur at Oak Hill in '98 good buddy Jerry Stahl told me that if I had free afternoon I should consider playing Monroe CC. I was not disappointed.Enjoyed the staff and members I met, course had lazy, pleasant flow to it . Not a bad hole to be found. One of the more pleasant rounds I can recall. Thanks , Jerry.

Also, thanks to Dick Bennett and Bobby Ulsaker for getting access for the APL Committee to Minikahda when we were at Rush Creek for the 2004 Public Links. Just a fun track. Need a good wedge game and a smooth putter there.

[Rory Connaughton]

Enniscrone
Mullingar
Ballyliffen Old (oozes charm)

In the States, I don't think any of these qualify as unexpected to the wider world but certainly my expectations were blown away.  I also have to add the caveat that I didn't discover these courses. I was just fortunate enough to be exposed by the kindness of other GCA'ers

Yale (I know I know, its merits are widely recognized but even with high expectations it was way better than I expected)
White Manor
French Creek
Lu Lu

Rockaway River - Denville, NJ

[Will Lozier]

I actually took a trip a few years ago with my brother that encompassed Kebo, Northeast Harbor, Wawenock, Castine, and Samoset.  You can guess which one was underwhelming...the first four are all great fun.  Samoset is great for the views and the ocean whores...but as a golf course it's only so-so.

Brad,  

Samoset WAS truly underwhelming.  What were your impressions of Wawenock and Castine (have never heard of this Park design)?

Cheers

[Kalen Braley]

I live in Idaho.  Outside of the few rated courses in the north, golf in the whole state is unknown.  Most of it for a reason.  For example, here’s the top five public from Golf Mag:
 
1. Coeur d'Alene Resort, Coeur d'Alene
2. Osprey Meadows at Tamarack, Donnelly
3. Circling Raven, Worley
4. Sun Valley, Sun Valley
5. Whitetail, McCall

All mountain tracks.  Everyone knows about Sun Valley, the ski resort.  Not many know about the golf courses, some fine mountain tracts, especially the Trail Creek course.  TC was designed by Billy Bell in the 30’s and re-done by RTJ II in the 80’s.  For pure quirk, play the new White Clouds nine also at the resort.  Totally bizarre resort course.  Very difficult and weird the first time around.  My first time, I played with 3 other guys, all of us in the 10—18 cap range.  Our scores for nine holes were 50, 51, 56, and 65.  The next time was much easier and more fun.  You can’t walk it unless you are a Sherpa.  When I got in the cart that had just come off a round at White Clouds, the score card was empty except for the comment written on it:  “F**K THIS PLACE.”  Very polorizing course.  I think it's fun at match play, but beware the resort guest looking for a relaxing round of golf.  

Dave,

I'm not sure about the other 3, but I've played The Resort at CDA and Circling Raven and am confused why you would call them mountain tracks.....they are far from it. Sure Circling Raven is a long walk, but its only hilly at most.  And CDA is flat as a pancake with the exception of 3 short holes on the little knob on the west part of the course.

For actual mountain tracks, you need to go to Utah!!!  

[Brad Tufts]

I actually took a trip a few years ago with my brother that encompassed Kebo, Northeast Harbor, Wawenock, Castine, and Samoset.  You can guess which one was underwhelming...the first four are all great fun.  Samoset is great for the views and the ocean whores...but as a golf course it's only so-so.

Brad,  

Samoset WAS truly underwhelming.  What were your impressions of Wawenock and Castine (have never heard of this Park design)?

Cheers

Wawenock was a neat old 9 holer playing up and and down a huge valley.  I think its a Stiles course.  Definately worth a play if in the area.  Castine is located in the town of the same name (which also contains the Maine Maritime Academy) and is a similar old-styled 9-holer with more pushup greens and blind shots and such.  Just a cool low-key spot.  The old first tee was situated on top of a revolutionary war fort that is now across the street from the current first tee and clubhouse.
 

[Will Lozier]

I actually took a trip a few years ago with my brother that encompassed Kebo, Northeast Harbor, Wawenock, Castine, and Samoset.  You can guess which one was underwhelming...the first four are all great fun.  Samoset is great for the views and the ocean whores...but as a golf course it's only so-so.

Brad,  

Samoset WAS truly underwhelming.  What were your impressions of Wawenock and Castine (have never heard of this Park design)?

Cheers

Wawenock was a neat old 9 holer playing up and and down a huge valley.  I think its a Stiles course.  Definately work a play if in the area.  Castine is located in the town of the same name (which also contains the Maine Maritime Academy) and is a similar old-styled 9-holer with more pushup greens and blind shots and such.  Just a cool low-key spot.  The old first tee was situated on top of a revolutionary war fort that is now across the street from the current first tee and clubhouse.
 

Brad,

This is my earlier post:

Wawenock in Maine - on the way to meet my girlfriend (at the time) whose family owned a small 2 acre island off Christmas Cove, I drove by this little 9-holer and must have played it 3 or 4 times while living in Maine.  Save for one poor hole, it is one of the most fun courses I've set foot on and HIGHLY recommend it.  #1, 2, 6, 8, & 9 are particular highlights on this 1928 track.  Anyone else lucky enough to have played it?

I have really enjoyed it over the couple of times I've gotten over there...Would you put Castine above it?

[Brad Tufts]

Clearly my reading comprehension is not great, ha.

I would say Castine is similar in quality.  I think Castine is a bit shorter, but also a bit less rough around the edges than Wawenock.

It's a been a while since I played either one, as that trip was in 2004.  Michael Moore might even be able to describe a few other Maine hidden gem 9-holers that I haven't seen like Wilson Lake, Grindstone Neck, Blue Hill, North Haven, Causeway, Great Chebeague, etc.  Maine might not have many great layouts worth national recognition, but for charming little slices of heaven, it may be the #1 golf state in the US.

In Maine golf, it seems that the older, shorter, and the more boat rides you must take to reach a course leads to the best experiences.

[Dave McCollum]

Dave,

I'm not sure about the other 3, but I've played The Resort at CDA and Circling Raven and am confused why you would call them mountain tracks.....they are far from it. Sure Circling Raven is a long walk, but its only hilly at most.  And CDA is flat as a pancake with the exception of 3 short holes on the little knob on the west part of the course.

For actual mountain tracks, you need to go to Utah!!!  
[/quote]

Kalen—I haven’t played anything in Northern Idaho.  I guess I just assumed they were mountain landscapes from pictures I’ve seen.  I stand corrected.  I would call Osprey, SV, and Whitetail mountain courses, for no other reason than the shortness of their seasons.  They are not on the sides of mountains, just surrounded by them.  White Clouds is another story and severely mountainous.  It climbs up from the two holes on the flats (elevation 6,000 ft), #1 & 9, plays along a knife-edge wide ridge and across steep gullies, then plummets down the mountain at the par 4, 525 yard 8th.  It’s wickedly difficult the first time around with lots of blind shots due to the extreme terrain.  Requires very straight hitting, very tricky use of ground contours, and lots of ammo.  The views are great and the holes so extreme they are all instantly memorable.  High cappers have no chance of scoring well, so my comment about it being a bizarre resort course.  Most people hate it.  I don’t, but wouldn’t want to play it often.  It’s an exotic dish for a match with your pals:  you know the kind of place where your 6 nips your opponent’s 7.  My first time, I think I won a hole with a triple bogey.  A very quirky blend of strategic, penal, and heroic architecture; a course only for those that love a challenge and can laugh at their mistakes.  It would give Melvyn nightmares.  I didn’t say it was good, but I will say that it is quirky and unique.

[Chris_Blakely]

Harrison Hills is a great one...played that one in 2009 on a whim.

4 Mile Ranch fit this bill for me in CO about 5 years ago.  Jim Engh certainly is a heralded architect, but this layout near Canon City is definately a neat course in an out-of-the-way location, with a prison across the street!

CC of Greenfield and Wahconah in MA and JP Larkin (9) in Vermont have also been similar.

CCoG is a neat old course with quirk, rock outcroppings, railroad tracks through the course, with many lay of the land holes.  Near the jct. of Route 2 and I-91 in Mass.  You won't hear this often, but I prefer it to Crumpin-Fox.

JPL is a fun little course near the Connecticut River played on three distinct elevation levels, with one mind-bending downhill par three where the slopes create a fun optical illusion that makes the green look impossible to hit.

Wahconah is a Stiles course that approaches the Taconic level in quality.  Add an ever-improving Waubeeka and CC of Pittsfield (accepting greens fees off-season), and you have a great foursome of courses to play in Western MA.

CC of Greenfield is a very good Ralph Barton course.

[Andy Silis]

A couple that are totally under the radar:

Klinger Lake CC ( Sturgis, MI )
Valparaiso CC ( Valparaiso, IN )

[BCrosby]

Andy -

Tell us more about Valparaiso. I played a couple of high school tournaments there, but recall almost nothing about the course.

Bob

[Garland Bayley]

Ron,

I have played it as well and would agree with Keith. Its just OK.

Yes, but then Ron gets all excited about things that are Doak 2 or 3s.

[Garland Bayley]

Elkhorn Golf Course in Oregon.  The golf isn't world class, but the experience is.  Playing in the Cascade Mountains, the smell of fir, and the beauty of it all.   A true gem.

Dan,

Aren't you the one that has mentioned Longview CC with it's Mickey Mouse hole in the past? I went there expecting nothing, but found that the original 9 holes was on very cool land with a neat drivable par 4 following the Mickey Mouse hole. They have added a back nine to the original, which is not on as good land, but still stands out as being above average to me.

[Matt Bosela]

My favourite unexpected find came from a midwestern camping/golf trip I took with three friends in August of 2000.  I wasn't a member at any club back then and was only playing golf once or twice a month at local public courses.  I had no real interest in good golf architecture back then either, just good deals or getting the opportunity to play TOUR courses.

My one friend set the itinerary, which would see us play one course in Michigan (Cascades GC in Jackson) and one in Indiana (Elbel Park GC in South Bend).  The main event from a golf perspective was to be Cog Hill #4 in Lemont, Illinois before heading to Ohio for three more courses (Maumee Bay GC in Oregon, Punderson State Park GC in Newbury and Pebble Creek in Lexington) before taking in an Indy CART race in Lexington to finish the trip.

The courses were all "budget choices" except for Cog Hill and I had no real expectations for the other courses, especially knowing the green fees were all around $15 to $20.

The unexpected find came as we were making our way to Elbel GC in South Bend.  We had some time before we teed off so we decided to make a quick trip to Notre Dame University to check out the campus and the football stadium.  As we drove away, we noticed this gorgeous looking golf course alonside the road and decided to pull in.  The course was on flat-looking land but I was blown away by the bunkering, which looked ragged and unkempt and unlike anything I'd ever seen before.  The parking lot was almost completely empty so we parked our car up front and decided to walk into the pro shop to get the scoop on the place.

Turns out that the course was only finished the previous year and it was also public so we cancelled our reservation at Elbel and teed it up here instead.  It turned out to be the highlight of the trip as we were all blown away by the natural look of the course and the incredibly friendly staff.  

Of course, most of you have probably figured out that I'm talking about the understated Coore/Crenshaw design at Warren Golf Course and I can honestly say that my experience there was what initiated my desire to learn about and experience great golf course architecture.

[Ash Towe]

Cromwell.

I have not played this course.  However, it featured on a local golf programme on tv last night.  It has been renovated by the Turner-Macpherson team and was described as NZ's closest version as to what can be found on the Melbourne Sandbelt.

Cromwell is 45 minutes from Queenstown and has wonderful scenary and is very close to some terrific vineyards.

[Kalen Braley]

Hey Dave,

Not a problem.  There are some mountains in the Spokane/CDA area but not many.  Mt. Spokane is one of the highest at 5,000 feet, so thats not very big compared to the ones in Utah at 11-13,000 feet.

That being said we also have about an 8 month season here.  Most courses are usually closed Mid-November thru Mid-March.

In terms of "toughest course to walk in the area"...that would probably easy got to Black Rock.  There is a lot of elevation change out there and it definitely has a few holes with some extreme elevation change.