[Mark Saltzman]

Modern: http://golfweek.com/news/2012/apr/18/golfweeks-best-canadian-modern-2012/

Some notable changes:

List increased from 30 courses to 40 courses (I think there are enough good to great courses in Canada to warrant this change).

Devil's Paintbrush moves to no. 1 (from no. 2) - I agree... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/02/devils-paintbrush-golf-course-review.html

Muskoka Bay Club drops from no. 6 to no. 11 - I agree... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/02/muskoka-bay-club-course-review.html

Sagebrush jumps from no. 8 to no. 3

Coppinwood jumps from no. 9 to no. 6 - still has room to go up in my opinion... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/02/coppinwood-golf-club-course-review.html

Devil's Pulpit drops 5 spots to no. 12 - I agree

Mad River goes from NR to no. 16 - I agree

Osprey (Hoot) jumps from no. 23 to no. 17 and is now the highest rated course at that facility - I agree

A very good list.


Classic: http://golfweek.com/news/2012/apr/18/golfweeks-best-canadian-classic-2012/

List increased from 30 courses to 40 courses

St. Georges moves into no. 1 (from no. 2) and Highlands Links drops from no. 1 to no. 3

Essex jumps 13 spots from no. 23 to no. 10 - completely agree, perfect example of flat-land architecture by Mr. Ross... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/02/essex-golf-and-country-club-review.html

Kawartha makes the list at no. 24! (!!) - finally!... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2011/12/kawartha-golf-cc.html

[Ronald Montesano]

I still can't figure out how Cherry Hill doesn't make this list, especially after the work that Ian Andrew and Brood did there.

"perfect example of flat-land architecture by Mr. Ross... "

I could say the same and substitute "Mr. Travis" when discussing Cherry Hill.

[Mark Saltzman]

Ron, could just be that not enough raters have played it.

[Michael George]

Mark - absolutely love your enthusiasm for Canadian golf.  

I have not played any Canadian golf, but St. George's, Highland Links and Capilano are very high on my wish list for any country - much higher than ranked.   I don't know what it is about Capilano, but whenever I look of pictures of the place, I just think it is suited for me.  The picture of 18 in Planet Golf is one of my favorite golf course pictures that I have ever seen.

Found the picture online:



This one isn't bad either:

[Gary Slatter]

A good list indeed, and I agree with your comments Mark.   
Good to see MAD RIVER (Cupp) finally made a list.  It's  so much better than Beacon Hall (12 to 6)  but remains a secret, by choice.

[Matthew MacKay]

The 2012 lists are very different from 2 years ago. I believe that this ranking is a better reflection of Canadian courses than the previous one.

Classic:

I am comfortable with 1-5. Hamilton could easily move up if they did a proper restoration. As it stands, the bunkering is really mediocre and out of scale, and they could remove hundreds of 'ornamental' trees and bushes that litter the property. The dubious grassing lines have been mentioned previously.

Royal Montreal Blue is neither classic, nor very good. It's generally a chore to play, although I could see how really good players could enjoy the challenge of trying to hit the proper section of the green...on every single hole. I am glad to see the Red course make the list.

Love seeing Essex and Mt. Bruno high on the list...two examples of great greens and smart bunkering carrying the day.

Not surprised to see Westmount lower than some would expect...another course that needs a proper restoration. The renovation work done there was truly horrendous for the most part (12 green?).

Surprised to see Lambton on the list. Like RMB, it's really not a classic now that Rees did his thing. I do think some of the changes were positive, but with guys like Hanse doing incredible work I wonder if they'd like a mulligan on their choice of architect.

Wow, St. Thomas seems low to me. Great movement in the land, great greens, awesome variety of par 4's. I have it much higher.

The two courses I'm most pleased to see on the list are Chateau Montebello and KAWARTHA. These courses were off the radar enough that I had to request that they be added to the list of eligible courses. Montebello is almost like a mini-Highlands Links...really a great routing. I grew up at Kawartha...finally it's starting to get its due. The par 3's are stellar and the course has some of the coolest features you'll see in Canada. The front>back tiered green at #2, the saddle green at #4, the ridges on the wild 9th green, the approach to #10, the natural routing of #13, etc, etc. Good stuff.

The most glaring omission is Cherry Hill...a la Essex, it's simply great greens and great bunkering on flat land. The work done there recently was magnificent. Some others that could have cracked the list include Burlington, Sarnia, St. Charles, Royal Ottawa, and Highland (London).

Modern:

I haven't seen Sagebrush or Cabot Links, but I expect both would be top notch. Although I acknowledge some of the misgivings people have about The National, it's still a pretty incredible golf course. The greens are really excellent and do not allow for sloppy play. FAST and FIRM. It's one of the few courses in Canada that is truly special.

Count me as a fan of Rocky Crest. I think it has a better variety of holes than most other Muskoka courses.

I'd have Shaughnessy #2...love the small greens. 9,10,11 is a great stretch, but please someone take a chainsaw to the tree short/left of #11 green, and make it a par 4.

I'd move DPulpit and Deerhurst down the list.

I'd move Blackhawk WAY up the list. The architecture there blows away 99% of what has been built in the last 50 years. Might be the best back 9 in Canada.

Interesting that Redtail is lower than most other rankings. Maybe Golfweek panelists are less influenced by the exclusivity of the place. I do think it's better than that, although the last 3 holes have always left me flat.

Where is Wolf Creek? Both courses there should crack the list easily.

[Jim Franklin]

Anything in Whistler make the list?

[Mark Saltzman]

Anything in Whistler make the list?

Jim, golf in Whistler is not Canada's best. Several courses in the Vancouver area made the list, though.

If you're headed to Whistler, Big Sky would probably be my first pick.

[Mark Saltzman]

Matt,

Come to Toronto and lets have a drink or a game. We have very similar taste in golf courses.

I completely agree on Hamilton. It is very hard for me to appreciate what is on the ground today and not see all the flaws you pointed out. It could be so great, but it just isn't (in me eyes) right now. A restoration would be very exciting.

You're the second person to note the omission of Cherry Hill. I haven't seen it. That will be rectified this year.

The remainder of your classic omissions interest me. I have never heard them discussed among the nation's top 50, but it certainly makes me want to see them. They certainly have been off the radar for Score's top-100, perhaps with the exception of Burlington which was in the 90s this year.

Anyways, great comments.

[Jim Franklin]

Anything in Whistler make the list?

Jim, golf in Whistler is not Canada's best. Several courses in the Vancouver area made the list, though.

If you're headed to Whistler, Big Sky would probably be my first pick.

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the help. I am headed to Vancouver/Whistler this summer and hope to arrange a round at Sagebrush and then whatever else is good in the area. Four days in each place so I have a little leeway although Sagebrush is certainly #1 on my list. I am guessing it is easier to get to Sagebrush from Vancouver than Whistler.

[Michael George]

Jim:

Mark is certainly knows more about Canadian golf than me, but see my message above.  I don't know how you don't play Capilano if you are in Vancouver.  Plus, it is right there - no drive hardly - which is good if the family is in tow.

[Matthew MacKay]

Well Mark, unless you don't consider Etobicoke to be part of Toronto, then I'm already there. I'd love to meet up. Check your email.

Cherry Hill is excellent. If you like Essex, you will be fond of Cherry Hill.

[Will MacEwen]

I would say Big Sky is the clear #1 at Whistler.  I could see it making the modern list but I just don't have enough familiarity with the Ontario courses.

I played Montebello about 11 years ago and loved it.  Could likely use some chainsaw work, but it was great.  I'm not sure how much it has been tinkered with over the years.

[Sean Leary]

Aren't Big Sky and Chateau Whistler on the modern list?

[Mark Saltzman]

Aren't Big Sky and Chateau Whistler on the modern list?

  yup. 30 CW and 40 BS. Neither are great though.

[Will MacEwen]

Aren't Big Sky and Chateau Whistler on the modern list?

  yup. 30 CW and 40 BS. Neither are great though.

Big Sky isn't great, but if all the modern courses I have played in Kelowna, Kamloops, and the Kootenays I would think it is the best.  Not counting Sagebrush, which is clearly superior.

I have played worse mountain courses than Chateau, but it puzzles me how it always ranks so highly.  I have played it about 10 times and always lose interest. 

Maybe I will re-read the list now so Leary doesn't spend the day nitpicking my deep thoughts.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim:

Mark is certainly knows more about Canadian golf than me, but see my message above.  I don't know how you don't play Capilano if you are in Vancouver.  Plus, it is right there - no drive hardly - which is good if the family is in tow.

Capilano looks cool. I will see what I can do, although Sagebrush is still #1 to play.

[Sean Leary]

Jim:

Mark is certainly knows more about Canadian golf than me, but see my message above.  I don't know how you don't play Capilano if you are in Vancouver.  Plus, it is right there - no drive hardly - which is good if the family is in tow.

Capilano looks cool. I will see what I can do, although Sagebrush is still #1 to play.

Capilano is a great, great place, and well worth putting an extra effort in to play.

[Frank M]

I would not go to Vancouver and play golf without trying to play Capilano. One of the best examples of golf architecture on a tough piece of land and one of Stanley Thompson's personal best. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Great issues and course list.

[Robert Thompson]

If one really wanted to get a sense of Canadian golf, there are a handful of courses one has to see (from west to east):

1) Capilano (one of Thompson's best, though I put it behind Highlands, St. George's, and Jasper, and likely Banff as well. Still great)
2) Sagebrush -- Zokol's take on minimalist golf, with the design by Rod Whitman. Wonderful to play, even if Zokol isn't involved any longer
3) Banff and Jasper -- take the trip north from Calgary and see two of Thompson's best. Banff needs a bunker restoration, but Jasper really hasn't been tinkered with. if you come from Edmonton, see Whitman's Blackhawk, one of the best modern courses in Canada.
4) St. George's -- an amazing routing, amazing par fours, and one awful green. Might be Thompson's best.
5) Oviinbyrd -- Thomas McBroom's best work and one located in Muskoka, which has a pretty unique topography. Not in the elite like the others here, but worth seeing just to see what Muskoka (Canada's version of the Hamptons) has to offer. Many wouldn't put this in the elite in Canada, but I think it demonstrates a unique part of the country.
6) National GC -- penal golf at its best or worst depending on your perspective. Ultra-tough greens, the National is a great routing but not as perfect as some have suggested. Worth seeing as the prime example of modern architecture in Canada in the 1970s.
7) Mount Bruno -- Quebec's best is an understated Willie Park Jr. gem with some tremendous greens. Old school at its finest.
Cabot Links -- enough written about this one.
9) Highlands Links -- rebounding from a big storm two years ago, Ian Andrew has done a fine restoration job and there are vistas returning where once there were only trees.
10) Humber Valley -- located in Newfoundland, so many haven't seen this one. Arguably Carrick's best work -- and a tremendously dramatic site. Since Carrick is likely the best modern designer in Canada (though Whitman could be in this camp, though he's done a lot less work), Humber is worth seeing to understand the interest in this Toronto architect.

[Greg Beaulieu]

Fox Harb’r at #7?

Surely that is a mistake.

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