[Howard Riefs]

Finally, the photo shows that the angle of his shot to get out and turn the ball was not nearly as severe as that which is depicted in the photo that opened this thread. All this leads me to believe that, while his shot was truly amazing, it did not defy the law of physics.

Thanks for the new illustration and reality check.  Based on the earlier photo of the 90-degree turn, I had visions of JFK and the "magic bullet" theory.

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=14347

[William_G]

Thanks Richard, nicely done.

[Tony Ristola]

RJ, I agree, and they should give a road map on how to get there.

Watch, next year they'll have a new tree blocking that gap.

[Matthew Sander]

Thanks for the new illustration and reality check.  Based on the earlier photo of the 90-degree turn, I had visions of JFK and the "magic bullet" theory.

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=14347

Howard,

I believe you included the wrong link...surely you meant this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc

(Before any of you shout OT, note the direct link to GCA in the clip.)

[David_Tepper]

Tom Watson's press conference comments on Bubba's shot (taken from Geoff Shackelford's website):

"The shot he hit on the second playoff hole that he hooked the gap wedge 155 yards, there are very few people who can do that, hook it and hit it that far.  The only two people that I have witnessed be able to hit a wedge like that are Trevino and Andy North.  They can turn a wedge just right around a corner.  I can't do that.  I can't turn it that much.  

I wish they had set that shot up a little bit better before they hit the shot, before he hit the shot.  I wish somebody was down there describing the shot because they didn't know from the tower what the shot really was about.  They didn't know how far it was until afterwards.  Afterwards they said 155 yards.  I wish somebody had set the stage for the shot rather than it being an after‑fact.

When that shot hit the green and Faldo so correctly said, I've never seen a ball screw to the right like that on this green ever.  We've never seen a shot like that.  He had to play that shot and he did and won the tournament with it.  That's what makes ‑‑ that's what makes certain tournaments legendary.  You'll always remember that shot out of the trees on the playoff hole at Augusta."  

[Sean Leary]

Based on the new location, this is probably more realistic flight path for the ball.

In the screen shot though, doesn't it look like he is at least halfway down the bunker? You are looking at the very front of the bunker. The tv shots from behind the green makes it look like it is farther down as well.  Also if you look at the grass/pine straw line, it looks pretty close to parallel to his ball rather than at 45 degrees (not sure I said that right).

[Kalen Braley]

DAMN IT all to hell, Joe stole my thunder!!  

I was in the process of putting together a side by side analysis with the ground pic of the shot of Bubba and an aerial view pic.  I came up with the exact same spot for where Bubba would have most likely hit the ball from.  And as Richard has chimed in, it looks a lot more reasonable than the initial picture which looked to defy basic principles of physics.

I concur 100% with Joe on his positioning in his picture.

P.S.  And when using Google Earth to draw a line between there and the back portion of the green, it comes out to 155 yards which matches what they said on TV.

[Sean Leary]

DAMN IT all to hell, Joe stole my thunder!!  

I was in the process of putting together a side by side analysis with the ground pic of the shot of Bubba and an aerial view pic.  I came up with the exact same spot for where Bubba would have most likely hit the ball from.  And as Richard has chimed in, it looks a lot more reasonable than the initial picture which looked to defy basic principles of physics.

I concur 100% with Joe on his positioning in his picture.

KB,

Where is the rest of the Mack Bunker then. Is it hidden?  Also, look at the video and where the cleared out alley of people is from behind the green at the very beginning. Seems farther down, no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaq_SAtm3J8

[Kalen Braley]

DAMN IT all to hell, Joe stole my thunder!!  

I was in the process of putting together a side by side analysis with the ground pic of the shot of Bubba and an aerial view pic.  I came up with the exact same spot for where Bubba would have most likely hit the ball from.  And as Richard has chimed in, it looks a lot more reasonable than the initial picture which looked to defy basic principles of physics.

I concur 100% with Joe on his positioning in his picture.

KB,

Where is the rest of the Mack Bunker then. Is it hidden?

Yes actually,

The bunker is not all on the same level.  When you look at the original picture of bunker, you can see the flanges as circled in orange



Here are those same parts of the bunker when looking from the overhead shot, and you can see the large tree right on that same direct line from Bubbas point of view.  That's why I totally concur with Joe on this.

[Sean Leary]

DAMN IT all to hell, Joe stole my thunder!!  

I was in the process of putting together a side by side analysis with the ground pic of the shot of Bubba and an aerial view pic.  I came up with the exact same spot for where Bubba would have most likely hit the ball from.  And as Richard has chimed in, it looks a lot more reasonable than the initial picture which looked to defy basic principles of physics.

I concur 100% with Joe on his positioning in his picture.

KB,

Where is the rest of the Mack Bunker then. Is it hidden?

Yes actually,

The bunker is not all on the same level.  When you look at the original picture of bunker, you can see the flanges as circled in orange



Here are those same parts of the bunker when looking from the overhead shot, and you can see the large tree right on that same direct line from Bubbas point of view.  That's why I totally concur with Joe on this.

look at the video  I posted though...Your left bunker circle adds up but the right one doesn't...Wonder if we could get a placement on that TV tower. That would give us the best indication.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

I will admit, that while its not definitive either way...it still looks like Joe was right.

Look at this picture of the 10th hole from a different angle.  You can see the two original flanges in Orange.  And then I also circled a lip of the bunker in blue, which looks like the end of the bunker from Bubbas view...when in reality it seems to me, it just appears that way and it actually obscures the rest of the front portion of the bunker.

[Joe Stansell]

Sean,

Its not just the position of his ball, but the angle of his view, that matters. He was not hitting out square to the fairway, but rather on an angle, and that angle makes it look like he's further down than he actually was.

I offer as further evidence:

1.  420 yard drive? Really??

2.  On this video, at approximately 1:30, you can see the scoreboard on the opposite side of the fairway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9UgFwmxfVA&feature=related

3.  In a previous post in this thread, Jeff Warne stated that he was standing next to that scoreboard, which was directly across from where Bubba was hitting and that the scoreboard was positioned at the beginning point of the MacKenzie Bunker.

4.  On the same video, at about 49 seconds, you can see Bubba (all white hard to miss) and his caddy off to the edge waiting for Louis to hit. They are about even with the beginning point of the MacKenzie bunker. If his ball was further down, they would not have been waiting there.

5.  On the same video, you can see (around 2:10) Louis waiting for Bubba to hit his ball at about the point where the MacKenzie Bunker begins; if Bubba was hitting from the middle of the bunker, Louis would have been waiting closer to the green.

6.  After Bubba hits the ball, you can see (around 3:00) that he emerges onto the fairway easily 15 yards or so to the far side of the tv stand that was between him and the green. You can see from the video (around 45 seconds) that the TV stand was positioned somewhere around the mid-point of the MacKenzie Bunker.

7.  In the photo that began this thread, you cannot see the tall tree that was in the opposite rough on a direct line with Bubba's aiming point. (See Golf World's photograph). In my version, I circled it so that it is clear.

8.  The CBS broadcast indicated that his ball was 155 yards from the hole. The location I've circled is right at 155 yards.

9.  What Kalen said.   

[Sean Leary]

Sean,

Its not just the position of his ball, but the angle of his view, that matters. He was not hitting out square to the fairway, but rather on an angle, and that angle makes it look like he's further down than he actually was.

I offer as further evidence:

1.  420 yard drive? Really??

2.  On this video, at approximately 1:30, you can see the scoreboard on the opposite side of the fairway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9UgFwmxfVA&feature=related

3.  In a previous post in this thread, Jeff Warne stated that he was standing next to that scoreboard, which was directly across from where Bubba was hitting and that the scoreboard was positioned at the beginning point of the MacKenzie Bunker.

4.  On the same video, at about 49 seconds, you can see Bubba (all white hard to miss) and his caddy off to the edge waiting for Louis to hit. They are about even with the beginning point of the MacKenzie bunker. If his ball was further down, they would not have been waiting there.

5.  On the same video, you can see (around 2:10) Louis waiting for Bubba to hit his ball at about the point where the MacKenzie Bunker begins; if Bubba was hitting from the middle of the bunker, Louis would have been waiting closer to the green.

6.  After Bubba hits the ball, you can see (around 3:00) that he emerges onto the fairway easily 15 yards or so to the far side of the tv stand that was between him and the green. You can see from the video (around 45 seconds) that the TV stand was positioned somewhere around the mid-point of the MacKenzie Bunker.

7.  In the photo that began this thread, you cannot see the tall tree that was in the opposite rough on a direct line with Bubba's aiming point. (See Golf World's photograph). In my version, I circled it so that it is clear.

8.  The CBS broadcast indicated that his ball was 155 yards from the hole. The location I've circled is right at 155 yards.

9.  What Kalen said.   

After seeing this video, I agree with you. Never mind..

[Bruce Wellmon]

I'm still amazed how far the tee shot went, and how far down the hill he was.

[DMoriarty]

Joe S,

I think the trees we see in the video are much closer to the green than the one you have circled.  From photos and videos it appears that the scoreboard was even with or past the front of the MacK bunker.   On the video, from Bubba's perspective, trees across the fairway appear to be to the right of the scoreboard. The trees appear right of the scoreboard.     In other words, I think perhaps Bubba was even a bit further back (and aiming a bit further right) than you have suggested.

[Jim Nugent]

Joe, it's real hard to see exactly where Bubba's ball was.  But seems to me you have made a pretty good case he was even with the start of the Mackenzie bunker.  That would put him closer to the green than the picture indicates, and make the angle of his shot more acute. 

Also, looks like Bubba took at least 25 steps from the edge of the rough to reach his ball.  I think that would put him further away from the fairway than the picture shows (deeper in the woods), also making his hook bigger than the picture indicates. 

So it wouldn't surprise me if his shot turned more than Richard's line suggests. 

But even if you assume he hit his shot from the center of the circle in that photo, and started the shot at the center of the circle on the other side of the fairway, he nearly curved it 90 degrees.   

[Brian_Ewen]

That tree just off the fairway gives a good idea where he was.

[Sean Leary]

That tree just off the fairway gives a good idea where he was.

Good catch.....I think Joe's spot is about right, maybe a few yards further down the picture at the beginning of the Mack bunker.

[Tim Gavrich]

I have no trouble whatsoever believing Watson's drive traveled in excess of 400 yards.  He hit one 390 on essentially flat ground at TPC River Highlands the year he won and the 10th at ANGC plays some 80-100' downhill, doesn't it?  Furthermore, the ball hit and rolled down a long, steep ramp of week-trodden-down pine straw and dirt, which must have been like concrete by early Sunday evening.

As for the shot, I have not seen a better one in my lifetime under the circumstances.  The killer, as others have touched on, is that for starters it's a shot that a scant, scant few could even potentially try, to start with.  Ridiculous, amazing, all the superlatives you can roll out.

[Carl Nichols]

As for the shot, I have not seen a better one in my lifetime under the circumstances.  The killer, as others have touched on, is that for starters it's a shot that a scant, scant few could even potentially try, to start with.  Ridiculous, amazing, all the superlatives you can roll out.

Also, if he didn't pull it off, there was a significant chance he would have left himself in a terrible position (leading to double or worse).  He would've been killed by the pundits if that happened.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Here's another attempt to explain it.




Isn't it one of those things that is a little diminshed by a rational explanation.  There was magic in that shot.

[Kalen Braley]

That tree just off the fairway gives a good idea where he was.

Good catch.....I think Joe's spot is about right, maybe a few yards further down the picture at the beginning of the Mack bunker.

And that tree is very much before MacKs bunker

[Carl Nichols]

Who knew that that bunker would be so relevant?

[DMoriarty]

Tony,  Thanks for posting that, it is helpful to see,  although I'd suspect that what Bubba meant was that he was aiming 40 yards left of the target, not that he was aiming 100 yards left to move it 40 yards off of its original line.  That photo of him at impact might be somewhat misleading.  Here is another of just after impact which may give a bit better idea of where he was aiming.



I've circled a few things, the scoreboard, three prominent and crooked trees, and a bush just behind his forehead.  While setup for a draw, it looks to me like he is trying to start the ball just to the left of the middle tree.  

Here is another photo with the same things circled. I've included it because it shows a bit higher up on the trees and we can see the right tree is extremely crooked.  



Here is a screen shot of the flyover of the hole from masters.org website.  I've circled the scoreboard, a bush to the left of the green, and the three trees I suspect are the same trees.  Note that the right tall tree is just off the edge of the green.  So it looks to me that he was aiming about half way between the scoreboard and the edge of the green, and the green is just barely out of view from his perspective.  If I have these things correctly marked then he is shooting a bit more up the fairway than others are suggesting.  This would also explain why from Bubba's perspective the right edge of the MacK bunker appears to be well right of the scorecard.  This could only be the case if Bubba was further back and/or further left than has thus far been suggested.  



[Note that the tree near where Bubba walked out onto the fairway is also visible in flyover capture inthe lower right corner.  That tree is helpful but we cannot assume he was walking straight out (perpendicular) to the fairway.  More than likely he is walking out along the path cleared for his shot, and that could be substantially back from where he walked out.]

Of course I've never been there so what do I know?

[Kirk Moon]

Here's another attempt to explain it.




Isn't it one of those things that is a little diminshed by a rational explanation.  There was magic in that shot.

The geometry in this image is exactly what I was trying to describe in post #60.

The original line of flight of the ball was along a line from back in the slot in the trees directly towards the far end of the MacKenzie bunker. 

Don't forget that some of that 40 yards of ultimate rightward displacement of the ball from the original line of flight took place AFTER the ball landed on the ground and took a vicious rightward kick due to the amazing amount of side spin on the ball.  I would guess that approximately 30-35 yards of rightward displacement took place in the air with the last 5-10 yards (15-30 feet) of rightward displacement occurring after the initial ground strike.  Note that the angle of the curved path in the air is FAR less than some have been claiming (I've see claims of a 90º change in the direction of the ball in the air, which I believe would violate one or more laws of physics.)

This was still an incredibly impressive shot, but what most of us think of as a HUGE hook is actually less dramatic than it might seem at first glance when analyzed carefully. 

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