[Patrick_Mucci]

Kevin Reilly,

That looks more realistic

[jeffwarne]

Jay Flemma:

Again, I didn't even think about the question b/c I saw that ball come out of the woods, zoom left, bounce take a Nancy Pelosi-esque left lurch, and grab a chair like a golf writer who just got a new Dan Jenkins book to read:) I didn't think I missed anything.

Am I missing something? From my vantage point in front of a television half a world away, I could have sworn that the ball moved to the right both in the air and after landing on the green.

He must've been behind the green

[Scott Warren]

You might be right, Jeff, thoughthe pedant in me would suggest the ball moved to the right regardless of a particular viewer's vantage point.

But having just been to Jay's The Golf Space website to read his piece on the 'Bend it Like Bubba' shot and read this post about a New York restaurateur

The only thing that surpasses how noisy, filthy, and empty Galik Ambarson’s “My Kitchen” restaurant is would be how much of an odious, despicable, drunken, violent, homophobic, morally bankrupt douchebag he is.

I am reminded that I should avoid going out of my way to upset him!

[Tony Ristola]

Won't get into what was the greatest shot, but Bubba's shot would have been easier for a right handed player; hooking a wedge that much is a hell of a shot, but it was 150 or so yards, which used to be a 7-iron in the early 80's, and I think a lot of guys could have hooked it that much with a less lofted club.

The tight lie in the trees helped him spin it... any which way, it was a tremendous shot under huge pressure, and added to it was trying to win his first major.

I think Augusta need plant more trees as Oakmont had after Miller shot 63.

Tony,
150 for a TOUR player in 1980 might've been a 7 iron, but not for the longest hitters-Dan Pohl etc.let's say an 8 iron.
But when duck hooking it could well have been a 9 iron or wedge(about 50 degrees) for the strongest of that era.
To hook a ball you need enough loft to severely close the face so I don't think using a less lofted club would've helped much, but certainly the old spinnier balls would've made curving it easier. 

Pohl hit it 273 when he lead the stats in 80 (I think it was 80). Tour avg back then was about 255.

I hit it about avg. tour player length in the early 80's and hit fairly long short irons (and I hit my 9-iron 15-yards longer today! 150). I don't see many guys back then hitting 9-irons 150 from bare lies unless they placed the ball off their right foot, and had a slightly downhill lie, and then they'd be hitting low screamers. What was the trajectory of Bubba's shot?

The old balata balls felt softer and spinnier around the greens, but I don't know if today's ball curves less than the old balata balls when the curve is exaggerated on full shots. I think Bubba illustrates that, for he moves the ball around a lot.

[jeffwarne]

Won't get into what was the greatest shot, but Bubba's shot would have been easier for a right handed player; hooking a wedge that much is a hell of a shot, but it was 150 or so yards, which used to be a 7-iron in the early 80's, and I think a lot of guys could have hooked it that much with a less lofted club.

The tight lie in the trees helped him spin it... any which way, it was a tremendous shot under huge pressure, and added to it was trying to win his first major.

I think Augusta need plant more trees as Oakmont had after Miller shot 63.

Tony,
150 for a TOUR player in 1980 might've been a 7 iron, but not for the longest hitters-Dan Pohl etc.let's say an 8 iron.
But when duck hooking it could well have been a 9 iron or wedge(about 50 degrees) for the strongest of that era.
To hook a ball you need enough loft to severely close the face so I don't think using a less lofted club would've helped much, but certainly the old spinnier balls would've made curving it easier. 

Pohl hit it 273 when he lead the stats in 80 (I think it was 80). Tour avg back then was about 255.

I hit it about avg. tour player length in the early 80's and hit fairly long short irons (and I hit my 9-iron 15-yards longer today! 150). I don't see many guys back then hitting 9-irons 150 from bare lies unless they placed the ball off their right foot, and had a slightly downhill lie, and then they'd be hitting low screamers. What was the trajectory of Bubba's shot?

The old balata balls felt softer and spinnier around the greens, but I don't know if today's ball curves less than the old balata balls when the curve is exaggerated on full shots. I think Bubba illustrates that, for he moves the ball around a lot.

Guys hit 150 yard 9 irons back then the same way Bubba hit a 162 yard 52 degree wedge.
With a delofted dead shut face.
A snaphooked 9 iron can have the loft(and distance) of a 7 iron, the same as a snap hook GW can have the same loft(and distance) as a 9 iron.
I don't think even Bubba's hitting a 162 yard gap wedge without a big hook.
Bubba's shot was pretty low for GW, and low enough to get under the canopy, but came in about the height a normal left handed human might've had with a 20 hook 9 iron . The difference is with his speed and lie he was able to create the back spin needed to stop it

I played with quite a few guys who hit 8 iron 150 in 1980-I was always a 145 8 iron guy-still am as I've resisted stronger lofts but the ball has helped me keep pace.
I find it much harder to curve the modern balls, esp draws/hooks

[JC Jones]

Jay Flemma:

Again, I didn't even think about the question b/c I saw that ball come out of the woods, zoom left, bounce take a Nancy Pelosi-esque left lurch, and grab a chair like a golf writer who just got a new Dan Jenkins book to read:) I didn't think I missed anything.

Am I missing something? From my vantage point in front of a television half a world away, I could have sworn that the ball moved to the right both in the air and after landing on the green.

Yes, but when you flush your toilets the water spins in the opposite direction as it does in the states.

[Brian_Ewen]

[Jim Nugent]

In the photo, which bunker is Bubba aiming at?

[jeffwarne]

In the photo, which bunker is Bubba aiming at?

Mackenzie
That was more than a 40 yard hook
I'd say 70

I think I would've moved the State trooper back about 10 yards  

[Jay Flemma]

Jay Flemma:

Again, I didn't even think about the question b/c I saw that ball come out of the woods, zoom left, bounce take a Nancy Pelosi-esque left lurch, and grab a chair like a golf writer who just got a new Dan Jenkins book to read:) I didn't think I missed anything.

Am I missing something? From my vantage point in front of a television half a world away, I could have sworn that the ball moved to the right both in the air and after landing on the green.

He must've been behind the green

That's right, I got the TV view from behind the green so it moved to my left, but the ball moved right...so it did a Rush Limbaugh...

[Kirk Moon]

In the photo, which bunker is Bubba aiming at?

Looks to me to be far end of the MacKenzie bunker.  And I am willing to bet that his ball position was in that dark slot in the trees about 2 cm directly to the right of the X (close button) on the overhead view.  

Draw a straight line from the far end of the MacKenzie bunker back into that slot and then create an arc that puts the ball roughly in the center of the green and you have what I think is the most realistic estimate of the flight of his ball.  

Looks to me that if his shot was around 150 yds in length, he put a healthy amount of hook on it, but nothing that defies the laws of physics (or common sense).  

[Padraig Dooley]

I would like to see how the tee shot ended up where it did. It was a long way down and long way into the trees, must have missed a lot of trees on the journey down.

[RJ_Daley]

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pkgvr984yfsj&lvl=18.82&dir=83.88&sty=b&form=LMLTSN

Try this view and see the line from the pine straw clearing (before the Mac bunker) and exit at the leaning thin white bark trees across the FW aside the Mac bunker hooking about 30 yards onto the green.  It seems pretty clear to me.  I don't know how to do a screen capture and then draw the flight of ball line...

[Joe Stansell]

I'm glad someone posted that picture of Bubba's shot. There is an excellent version of it in Golf World, and you can clearly see a tall tree in the rough (but not in the pine needles) and across the fairway that was directly in line with his position. That puts him further away than any diagram depicted so far, more like this:



Google Earth would place this position at about 360 to 370 yards from the tee. The other versions would place his position at about 410 to 420 yards off the tee. While he hits it long, I doubt he hit it that long.

Finally, the photo shows that the angle of his shot to get out and turn the ball was not nearly as severe as that which is depicted in the photo that opened this thread. All this leads me to believe that, while his shot was truly amazing, it did not defy the law of physics.

[Mike Hendren]

I think there's plenty of posters on this board that could hit that shot (right handed golfers, obviously from the other side of the fairway) and get the ball on the green...and really, that is all Bubba was trying to do.

Yea, us guys are good.  I submit there's no more than a handful of posters on this board that could have hit their approach FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE FAIRWAY to the spot where Bubba's ball finished.  Put that small group in a playoff for the Masters and  NOBODY does.

I'm constantly amazed by the lack of appreciation for great golf shops played in the heat of championship competition.   Bubba's shot was one of the greatest all time, period.  Maybe I've been reading too much Titanic Thompson, but I'd give anybody that ever posted here 3 tries at putting the ball from that spot within 15 feet and bet the farm that I don't own.

Rich is right.  We've all chipped in from tall greenside grass, but a 70 yards hook with a wedge from 155?  Hell, I can't hit a wedge 155 (except when I'm 90 yards from the green).

[RJ_Daley]

While we are discussing the best aerial photo (and I think my Bing birdseye may show it best  ) it seems to me that ANGC ought to go to the actual spot and place a small bronze marker there in the pine straw, commemorating the fete. 

[Kirk Moon]

I'm glad someone posted that picture of Bubba's shot. There is an excellent version of it in Golf World, and you can clearly see a tall tree in the rough (but not in the pine needles) and across the fairway that was directly in line with his position. That puts him further away than any diagram depicted so far, more like this:



Google Earth would place this position at about 360 to 370 yards from the tee. The other versions would place his position at about 410 to 420 yards off the tee. While he hits it long, I doubt he hit it that long.

Finally, the photo shows that the angle of his shot to get out and turn the ball was not nearly as severe as that which is depicted in the photo that opened this thread. All this leads me to believe that, while his shot was truly amazing, it did not defy the law of physics.

The "slot" of trees I was referring to in my post above is immediately to the right of the yellow circle in this photo.  Bubba's ball position would actually have to have been slightly MORE to the right (i.e. towards the fairway) than the yellow circle in the photo because views from behind Bubba's position shows a direct unimpeded line of vision from his ball to the very far end of the MacKenzie bunker.  A view from within the yellow circle would have had the view of the far end of the bunker obscured by trees.

My best guess for his position:  Pick the most distal end of the bunker.  Draw a straight line back towards the slot I am referring to and hug the tree line on the left hand side of the slot (viewed from above).  His ball was somewhere in that shady patch in the slot not far from where the shade breaks out into the light (around one full yellow circle width to the right of where the circle is on this photo.)

As I (and others) have said, this was a great shot, particularly under pressure, but not a ridiculous shot.  I doubt that he hooked the ball more than 20-30 yards on a 150 yard shot.  I do that every day (by accident, but still....)  : )

[George Pazin]

Nice thought, Dick, I agree completely!

Bogey, I've hooked wedges that far offline...just not on purpose. Or 155 yards. And never onto a green that I was aiming for.

Thanks for that pic, Joe S. Nice to see the Mackenzie bunker will eventually be a useful hazard again...

[Jay Flemma]

I agree, that's a good idea...sink a plaque...and then watch guys flail at that shot!!!

[JSlonis]

Won't get into what was the greatest shot, but Bubba's shot would have been easier for a right handed player; hooking a wedge that much is a hell of a shot, but it was 150 or so yards, which used to be a 7-iron in the early 80's, and I think a lot of guys could have hooked it that much with a less lofted club.

I don't agree.  From his distance, the shot would have been a lot harder for a right hander.  With the way its tougher to curve these new balls, it was a much easier shot for a lefty to be able to close down a shorter iron to hit a big hook. A righty would have had to take more club and open it up. The trajectory and shot shape set up much better for a lefty in that spot.  For a skilled player, it's easier to hit a big hook than it is to hit a big slice from that yardage.

[Kirk Moon]

I agree, that's a good idea...sink a plaque...and then watch guys flail at that shot!!!

Since very few players would actually have the opportunity to try out that shot even if they placed a plaque on the exact spot, AGNC being what it is, I suggest that one of more of you GCAs try to incorporate this shot as a "strategic option" into one of your upcoming courses, preferably on a public public access course.  Could be quite the marketing hook:  "Play the shot Bubba played.  Have you got it in your quiver?" 

: )

[RJ_Daley]

For a skilled player, it's easier to hit a big hook than it is to hit a big slice from that yardage.

Obviously Jamie plays a game of skill with which I am not familiar.     For an unskilled player, I can hit the open stance, open blade slice of a right-hander about 5X more often than I can any sort of hook.

A 155yd slice of similar dimensions for me would probably be a 5I, or even one of those sort of wide open - 3/4 swing, stop at the top and sort of swipeandwipe it across the ball, gripping tight with the left hand- 4I.  Maybe I get the curve about 1 in 4 tries.     A hook, maybe 1 in 20 tries, but no way that many yards of hook.  But for a hack like me, hitting a very lofted 9I-gap wedge with that much movement is pretty much impossible.  Oh, I can hit the stone cold shank off line that much, but it is a straight flight shank.   

I can just see some of those old codger members of ANGC, after the hoopla has died down before she closes for the summer, rushing out to the spot with a small bucket, 'flailing away'!

[Brent Hutto]

Watching Bubba on TV seems to have rubbed off onto my game. This weekend I needed a (lefty) draw to avoid a pine tree blocking my approach to a green. I pictured "what would Bubba do", aimed 10 yards left of the flag and hit a beautiful 2-yard draw that landed only 8 yards left of the hole. By my standards, that is a near-miraculous huge hook recovery shot (relative to my usual 10 yard quote-unquote Fade).

[Richard Choi]

Based on the new location, this is probably more realistic flight path for the ball.

[JSlonis]

RJ,

My thinking is that in the spot where Bubba's ball was, a lefty has a much better chance of getting that ball on the green. With a shorter iron, the lefty can hit it harder with more spin. The ball would come into that green on a better trajectory than a righty could get from that same spot.  A righty would have to hit some sort of a punch cut and it's harder to curve that type of shot as much as the lefty slinging hook.

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