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Sam Morrow

Another One Bites The Dust
« on: January 05, 2012, 01:53:19 AM »
Very sad news to hear that Pecan Valley (San Antonio) site of the 68 PGA is closing. I've played lots of golf there and I do love the place and it's very upsetting to see it close, I hope someone comes in and gets it back going.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/golf/article/Pecan-Valley-set-to-close-on-Sunday-2439277.php

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 08:49:33 AM »
That is sad news indeed.  I've only played there once, but it seemed to be an outstanding public facility and I'm sure the San Antonio golf scene will be worse off without it.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 09:36:00 AM »

What's wrong with this picture?

"Councilwoman Jennifer Ramos, whose District 3 encompasses the course, said she was approached by a local developer and a representative from Foresight about a plan to build multifamily housing on the property with a small nine-hole course for disabled veterans."

"Foresight Golf, a Boerne-based company that runs several courses in the area — including the nearby Republic Golf Club — manages Pecan Valley. Officials from the company didn't return calls seeking comment Monday and Tuesday."


Coasting is a downhill process

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 10:45:52 AM »
Sam,

I had a chance to see Pecan Valley years ago.  I went out of respect to Press Maxwell who I had interviewed at Pinehurst CC his home course in Denver.  We had a long chat over lunch where I proceeded to ask many questions about the Maxwell design group, Perry and Press.  I learned a lot that day about how they built greens and his fathers impression about building golf courses in that era.  One of the last questions I asked Press was to name a few of his favorite Maxwell golf courses.  He mentioned a few his dad did and a few of his personal favorites, one was Pecan Valley.
 He told me he really enjoyed building that golf course and the greens were some of his favorites.  Fast forward a few years later, I made a trip to south Texas to see Pecan Valley among others.  What a pretty setting for a golf course you could tell this must have been one heck of a course in its prime.

Sad to see it go.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2012, 10:54:24 AM »

What's wrong with this picture?

"Councilwoman Jennifer Ramos, whose District 3 encompasses the course, said she was approached by a local developer and a representative from Foresight about a plan to build multifamily housing on the property with a small nine-hole course for disabled veterans."

"Foresight Golf, a Boerne-based company that runs several courses in the area — including the nearby Republic Golf Club — manages Pecan Valley. Officials from the company didn't return calls seeking comment Monday and Tuesday."




Tim, what is wrong, I don't understand?
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2012, 10:56:40 AM »
Sam,

I had a chance to see Pecan Valley years ago.  I went out of respect to Press Maxwell who I had interviewed at Pinehurst CC his home course in Denver.  We had a long chat over lunch where I proceeded to ask many questions about the Maxwell design group, Perry and Press.  I learned a lot that day about how they built greens and his fathers impression about building golf courses in that era.  One of the last questions I asked Press was to name a few of his favorite Maxwell golf courses.  He mentioned a few his dad did and a few of his personal favorites, one was Pecan Valley.
 He told me he really enjoyed building that golf course and the greens were some of his favorites.  Fast forward a few years later, I made a trip to south Texas to see Pecan Valley among others.  What a pretty setting for a golf course you could tell this must have been one heck of a course in its prime.

Sad to see it go.


It was redone in 1998 by Bob Cupp.  I never saw it before or after the redo, so I don't know exactly what was done.  I have always heard good things about the design and setting.  Now the neighbhorhood, that is another story.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2012, 11:20:53 PM »
The area around it isn't great but it could be much worse, it doesn't look pretty but I've never felt uncomfortable. Of course some guys tried to car jack me once down the street from San Antonio CC so go figure.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 10:13:45 AM »
The San Antonio Express-News with more on the closing of Pecan Valley:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Why-Pecan-can-t-stay-closed-forever-2448741.php

Course employees were provided talking points to help them field questions from customers.  First on the list: “This decision was not easy to make!”
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 10:19:50 AM »
It isn't easy out there.  Support your local clubs!

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 11:38:03 AM »
I know enough about San Antonio city officials to know that a wonderful golf course will be turned into a Farmers Market that looks like something out of a Mexican village.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 02:51:38 PM »
S.A., specially the SS, is hardly the hottest land market in TX.  While the motives attributed to the owner might seem plausible, the basis for PV is likely north of $10 Milliion.  I doubt that there are 70 developable acres on the site, so we're talking about $3.50 p.s.f. land- not likely.

I don' know how big of a haircut the owner is willing or able to take, or how long it has to run its traps, but it would surprise me if PV stays closed for very long.  Without irrigation, the grass won't survive the summer.  With minimal maintenance, it can be closed for a year without requiring major expenditures to re-open.

PV is hardly one of the harder courses in S.A.   I have never played Republic, but unless it can capture most everything lost by the closing of PV, a highly doubtful outcome, it might make more sense not to close it as long as it contributes to fixed costs and debt service.  I suspect that Old Brack would take some of the evicted, and the foundation running the other six SA munis might see this as an opportunity to poach more of these rounds.  Perhaps the owner is testing its options, moth-balling the course during the seasonally slower time to see what shakes from the bushes.

As to PV's  standing in TX, it is hardly a top 25 course.  I prefer a number of courses in S.A., the Quarry among them.  From a price point perspective, Old Brack is superior without losing much on gca (though it is much easier).   

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 06:00:09 PM »

What's wrong with this picture?

"Councilwoman Jennifer Ramos, whose District 3 encompasses the course, said she was approached by a local developer and a representative from Foresight about a plan to build multifamily housing on the property with a small nine-hole course for disabled veterans."

"Foresight Golf, a Boerne-based company that runs several courses in the area — including the nearby Republic Golf Club — manages Pecan Valley. Officials from the company didn't return calls seeking comment Monday and Tuesday."




Tim, what is wrong, I don't understand?

The way I read that, Foresight golf is buying up and then closing its competition. Nothing illegal about it, but if I were a longtime PV player or employee, I'd resent it.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 07:24:28 PM »
Can we please show this place some respect and not discuss its closing in a public forum?  ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 10:24:14 PM »

What's wrong with this picture?

"Councilwoman Jennifer Ramos, whose District 3 encompasses the course, said she was approached by a local developer and a representative from Foresight about a plan to build multifamily housing on the property with a small nine-hole course for disabled veterans."

"Foresight Golf, a Boerne-based company that runs several courses in the area — including the nearby Republic Golf Club — manages Pecan Valley. Officials from the company didn't return calls seeking comment Monday and Tuesday."




Tim, what is wrong, I don't understand?

The way I read that, Foresight golf is buying up and then closing its competition. Nothing illegal about it, but if I were a longtime PV player or employee, I'd resent it.

Foresight has had Pecan Valley for several years now.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 09:25:04 AM »
On second thought...


Quote
District 3 City Councilwoman Leticia Ozuna recently filed a council consideration request that could halt plans to turn Pecan Valley Golf Club into an assisted living home for wounded veterans.

The request, which also was signed by four other council members, looks to rezone the land only for use as a golf course.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/community/southside/news/article/Fight-for-Pecan-Valley-Golf-Club-not-over-yet-3322665.php
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2012, 02:38:07 PM »
Pecan Valley developer to plans to "turn the golf club into a first of its kind golf community geared towards disabled veterans, disabled civilians, and senior citizens."


The Valor Club at Pecan Valley will include a high-end, gated apartment community with 30 percent of the units designed for handicapped tenants; a retirement village with assisted living; and, a redesigned nine hole course that's more accessible to disabled golfers.

"It's designed and intended for folks with disabilities to provide them better access on the greens and into sand traps and onto tee complexes," Pedrotti said. "We just felt that in 'Military Town USA' the whole concept of a community of that sort made a lot of sense."

Right now, the course is appraised at $3.5 million.  Pedrotti's estimates his planned investment would raise the value to $200 million, which could also raise property values in the surrounding area and possibly spur more investment and development on the South Side.


http://www.ksat.com/news/Developer-plans-new-Pecan-Valley-Golf-Course/-/478452/10678662/-/hw8hxkz/-/
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2012, 10:04:57 PM »
Sounds like a worthy cause I just wish it didn't come at the expense of Pecan Valley.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2012, 12:27:18 AM »
Thanks Sam and Lou, I loved that course. It is a great public course. This picture does not make sense, so there will be more to the story as Lou said.

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2012, 12:33:59 AM »
Thanks Sam and Lou, I loved that course. It is a great public course. This picture does not make sense, so there will be more to the story as Lou said.

I never liked the way people made Pecan Valley out to be in the hood, it's in a lower income working class area, I've never felt uncomfortable around the club. Heck once in my life I was the victim of an attempted car jacking and it was down the street from San Antonio CC in a nice area so go figure.

Jim Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2012, 11:53:41 PM »
The issue is not so much that the course is in the hood, but that there is nothing else around it to accomodate the visiting golfer.  Although I've never felt uncomfortable in the area, the truth is that there is nothing else in the area (restaurant, bar, etc), and if you choose (chose) to play at PV, you were essentially owning the drive to the course and back - and to most places in SA, that's a bit of a haul.  Architecturally, PV stands up favorably to the best in SA, Oak Hills and Briggs Ranch, and its loss is a true blow to those of us from the city. 


Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2012, 11:55:43 PM »
The issue is not so much that the course is in the hood, but that there is nothing else around it to accomodate the visiting golfer.  Although I've never felt uncomfortable in the area, the truth is that there is nothing else in the area (restaurant, bar, etc), and if you choose (chose) to play at PV, you were essentially owning the drive to the course and back - and to most places in SA, that's a bit of a haul.  Architecturally, PV stands up favorably to the best in SA, Oak Hills and Briggs Ranch, and its loss is a true blow to those of us from the city. 



It seems like it's only 15 minutes or so though from downtown.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 12:25:46 PM »
I don't know how you'd categorize the neighborhood, but it is the only course from which I've witnessed an off-course assault and battery . . . .

Sam Morrow

Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 01:08:13 PM »
I don't know how you'd categorize the neighborhood, but it is the only course from which I've witnessed an off-course assault and battery . . . .

Sounds like a little misunderstanding, no biggie. 8)

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another One Bites The Dust
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 12:43:45 AM »
I don't know how you'd categorize the neighborhood, but it is the only course from which I've witnessed an off-course assault and battery . . . .

Sounds like a little misunderstanding, no biggie. 8)

Just a flesh wound...