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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 05:47:29 PM »
Tee boxes in and of themselves don't make or break or a hole.  Simplicity, variety and WIDTH are the watchwords for teeing areas.

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Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 06:55:02 PM »
My pet peeve are tee boxes that aim you toward a hazard or out of bounds.

Raised tee boxes due have the advantage of shedding water if built properly, enhancing a view, providing a flat spot on uneven ground, and using a different type of grass.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 07:53:51 PM »
Here's a question (all right, four) for Carl, et al...why must prior hole be connected to subsequent hole? What is wrong with separation? Can a course be united when holes do not necessarily flow into each other? Must a course be united?

First, notice that I cheated.  The original question was, "What Makes a Great Tee Box?"  My answer was personal -- that is, what makes for me, personally, a great tee box.

My game, such as it is, is about feel and flow.  I play better when I get going and get in a rythmn, and don't have interruptions.  So, I think I play better, and am happier, when I am on an uninterupted journery.  (Notice another, related, point I made was that I liked tee boxes that made me feel comfortable.)  One could argue that, in fact, a "great" tee box is one that is disruptive, in the sense that the journey is disrupted, and makes one feel uncomfortable.  That's a reasonable perspective.  I'd say that could be "great" to challenge the best players in the world, but not so great for the day-to-day enjoyment of the game for the average recreational golfer.  Notice "journey."  That's how I look at a round of golf -- others may prefer 18 different, individual experiences.

Second, from what I would say is a more objective standpoint, the connectedness is as much a physical -- lay of the land -- experience as a subjective, emotional experience.  Usually, the lay of the land does not vary much in short distances.  (Obvious . . . you come to the edge of a cliff and there is a dramatic change.)  If you look at the total journey, I enjoy the experience of the physical transitions -- natural -- from hole to hole.  As I finish a hole, I like to see immediately what comes ahead, and relate it to what I've just finished.  Again, this might not be a "great" feature.  Maybe "great" is to present completely unexpected land changes from hole to hole.

Third, I'm definitely influenced by experience -- it is tough to get away from that.  My home course, which I've played many, many, many more times than any other, fits the pattern that I've said I think is "great."  With two exceptions, one being from 9 to 10 ("the turn"), we have very natural connections from green to tee.  The course is unified.  So, maybe "great" is just what we are used to.

If none of this makes any sense, then I will analogize to Justice Potter Stewart's infamous defintion of "obscenity."  I'll paraphrase.  "I cannot define it [the great tee box], but I know it [the great tee box] when I see it."

Now, to translate this general rambling response to your specific questions:

(1) Why must prior hole be connected to subsequent hole? Answer: It does not have to be -- I just like it that way.  (2)  What is wrong with separation? Answer: Nothing, in the abstract.  It might even be better from a challenge = greatness standpoint.  (3)  Can a course be united when holes do not necessarily flow into each other? Answer: depends on how you want to define "united."  [As you are the language expert, I don't want to take on discussion, in which I would not be able to compete, at the definitiional level.] (4) Must a course be united?  Answer: No, it (a golf course) most certainly does not have to be united.  But for me, personally, I prefer a "united" course (by my definition of "united," which has to do with a physical, spacial unity as contrasted with a conceptual unity).  I think of the word "course" as in the course of a river or stream -- which is all connected.  Relate this analogy back to your question (3) and the word "flow," that you use.  So, I relate the "course" in "golf course" to a course like the course of a flowing steam or river.  Is that fair?  Is that relevant?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:38:09 PM by Carl Johnson »

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 09:26:33 PM »
A bottle of Jameson on hand.

Signed,

The Kingsley Club

 :)

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 09:49:07 PM »
A bottle of Jameson on hand.

Signed,

The Kingsley Club

 :)

BOOM!

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 11:14:16 PM »
A bottle of Jameson on hand.

Signed,

The Kingsley Club

 :)


Bravo.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2012, 11:55:21 PM »
I've been looking at this subject for many years.  My personal feeling is they don't play a huge impact on the golf course.  I prefer the natural free form tees and I especially like the walkoff tees that blend into the fairway if possible.  

Sadly the worst tees I have seen in a while is what they have done at Olympic Club.  Once a great classic course, they have morphed it into a modern monster, scaring the land.


Some of the better tee boxes I have seen recently is at Valley Club.  The green surrounds blend perfectly into the next tee.   This is the 1st green and it comes down to the 2nd tee.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2012, 12:43:13 PM »
Joel, Can you elaborate more about why you're so bothered by the photo you posted of Olympic? I'll certainly admit that it looks a little silly to have all those squares on top of each other, it's a bit like a bad Tetris game.

But I like how they are at grade. What would be your suggestion to give it a better overall look?

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2012, 07:13:13 AM »
I love the new tees at Country Club of Detroit. They are mostly at ground level.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2012, 08:54:15 AM »
I don't like the Olympic photo because it forces a left-to-right bender. The fairway appears to slope left to right, so maybe it won't even allow that. Are we really playing a US Open there this year? Time to identify the archers in professional golf. Paging Mr. Tell, Mr. Hood!
Coming in 2024
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Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2012, 12:23:02 PM »
  I can imagine that after the big tournament, Olyimpic will simplify the tees and triplex them into a single teeing ground area. I'd put two bucks on that bet.  They look well crafted and maintained, and they'll look good on tv, but they're too gridlike for my tastes.
  Gotta love those Cupressus Macrocarpas though!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 12:24:49 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2012, 04:21:32 PM »
Joel, Can you elaborate more about why you're so bothered by the photo you posted of Olympic? I'll certainly admit that it looks a little silly to have all those squares on top of each other, it's a bit like a bad Tetris game.

But I like how they are at grade. What would be your suggestion to give it a better overall look?

The course was built in 1927.  At that time they used irregular shaped tee boxes that are generally walk off tee boxes, that is flush to the fairways.   Now it looks like a RTJ Sr. aircraft carrier tees.  LACC spent a lot of time and thought to the tee areas when they restored the course two years ago and Olympic should do the same.  C&C have incorporated many of their tees areas into irregular shapes, Chambers Bay as well.

Here is the brand new hole at Olympic.  The architect (Bill Love and the superintendent) have no idea on what a walk off tee is or irregular shaped tee is so again they built long multi tee areas.  They are expensive to build and especially maintain (Olympic has no accountability to their superintendent so the management has no idea on their costs).


Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2012, 05:51:08 PM »
Does anyone build new courses with ground level teeboxes any more?  You only see them on old designs.  If you can build greens without elevating them, why not teeboxes?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Makes a Great Tee Box
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2012, 11:36:47 AM »
Does anyone build new courses with ground level teeboxes any more?  You only see them on old designs.  If you can build greens without elevating them, why not teeboxes?

Only a few and it's from Doak, C&C, Hanse type architects.


One of the more unusual ones for a new course is at Chambers Bay.