[Matthew Schulte]

I am looking forward to a return trip to northern England later this month and to my first visit to Alwoodley. I have read that Alwoodley is in the midst of a five year restoration project.  Apparently one of the primary objectives of the project is to make the bunkers more visible from the line of play adding to the visual drama and to return them to more closely resemble their original shapes. They are apparently also transplanting "slabs" of heather onto the faces of bunkers. In the photos from the attached link (http://www.eigca.org/CaseStudies/EIGCA17995.ink) it shows heather being planted on a finger of the bunker between the surface of the green and the bunker, very much in play. Aesthetically heather is spectacular adding both color and a wonderful texture. However, as a hazard it can be controversial.

What do the rest of you think of heather as a hazard?

[Jon Wiggett]

Matthew,

you will find opinion falls into two camps generally. Those who think that there should be some degree of so called 'fairness' and would say that extreme punishment is not acceptable for a near miss so no heather near the putting surface and those who say golf need not be fair. I fall into the latter camp and think you should accept what comes your way and make the best of it.

Enjoy your game at Alwoodley, it is my favourite inland course. I hope that they remove most of the trees and so restore the heathland aspect of the area.

Jon

[Bill_McBride]

Heather can be brutal.   You have to be lucky to find a lie where you can advance the ball more than a few yards.   It looks innocuous but can be a disaster. 

I think #12 at Alwoodley is the only lengthy forced carry over heather. 

[Mac Plumart]

Matthew...

Have fun!  We await a full report upon your return.

[Jon Wiggett]

I think #12 at Alwoodley is the only lengthy forced carry over heather. 

Back in the mid 80's off the back tees 3, 5, 12 were all 160ish+ yards over heather and 16, 18 also good carries over water or gorse. It lost much of its hazards after that.

Jon

[Benny Hillard]

Matthew,

I like it! Anything that beautiful that can provide a challenge is good.
I understand that some don't like the difficulty in advancing the ball but it gives you a chance that water doesn't. And bunkers are not the challenge that I'm told they used to be. (I only started playing in 06)

Benny

[Niall C]

Matthew

I was a member at an Open qualifier course that went to great pains to keep and generate the heather along the side of the fairways. They have been so successful that its almost a guaranteed one shot penalty at least for nearly all club golfers. Ironically it isn't like the same hazard for the pro golfer who through better technique and strength can get out of it readily enough.

Can't say I was a fan of the way the heather lined the sides of the fairways in a thick carpet.

On the other hand I have also been a member of Silloth where there are pockets of heather about the course and therefore it is much more random a hazard which I like. Sometimes it presents no problems at other times you just have to take your medicine. I suppose like all good things it can be overdone.

Niall   

[Jim Tang]

Schulte!

What other courses are on your list for the trip?

[Matthew Schulte]

Bill:
I agree, the lies can be fairly variable and they often give one the impression that they can really advance it.  In my past experiences I have not figured out if it is better to swing steeply or more flat when in the heather. Not surprisingly my best results usually occur when I swallow my pride, take my medicine, and wedge out!

Nail:
I agree about being more partial too it when it randomly placed. As spectacular as Hankley Common is, especially in August, a missed fairway is likely a one shot penalty.

Benny:
I agree it is more forgiving than water and I love courses that offer real chances for recovery. I love that more and more superintendents are consciously working on minimizing how their irrigation systems water the native areas. When those areas are less dense it not only speeds up play, but it occasionally offers a real chance for recovery. Whether it is my technique or just plain lack of ability a missed fairway in the heather feels more like a US Open where I am often better off just wedging it back into the fairway.   

Jim:
After Alwoodley we will be playing Royal Liverpool, Royal Birkdale, Formby, West Lancashire and Royal Lytham & St. Annes.

Mac:
I will do my best to post a few photo tours when I return home.

[Scott Warren]

Heather -- like most hazards -- can be wonderful or horrid depending on how it is used.

There's a great example of heather as a hazard at Alwoodley, playing from the back tee on the 3rd hole.

From that tee it's a slightly angled tee shot and at 510 yards or so you really want to bit off as much as you can to 1. get in range for your approach, and 2. be on the right-hand side coming into the green, which has a wonderful lower-left potion that makes approaching from that side fairly uninviting.

The blow picture (not mine) is from further forward and in the centre, but you get a good look at the heather line that you're taking on from that tee back and to the right of where this picture was taken.

[Adam Lawrence]

A couple of years ago, I played in a golf day at the Berkshire and was paired with a lovely chap in his seventies. That day, I learned how horrendous a hazard heather can be to those with a very low swing speed.

On most of the holes, he couldn't carry the heather with his drive. Once in it, he couldn't get out. Thus the golf course was essentially impossible for him.

It's beautiful stuff, especially when it is in bloom, and I am totally supportive of the heather regeneration programmes being undertaken by so many courses. But more than just about any hazard I can think of, it punishes the weak far, far more than the strong.

[Sean_A]

I like heather, but just as is the case with heavy rough or gorse, it needs to be used with plenty of width and/or an opportunity to hit a fat part of the fairway for a conservative play.  To me, what is most important about heather is for the club to be able to grow/maintain it properly.  This means the course should be in good nick.  I would also say that heather should no not be used in combination with trees.  There is nothing worse than being in heather with trees blocking avenues back to the fairway.  Heather is tough enough already, it doesn't need trees to add to the difficulty.

Ciao

[Ulrich Mayring]

I think the debate is not so much about heather in general, it has the same properties as hard rough and thus, playability-wise, is a feature of most every golf course on earth.

I think the real controversy here is about heather being used to line bunker lips. That looks very pretty and makes bunkers more visible from a distance. But it also means that if you manage to narrowly avoid a bunker, you could get stuck in the heather and be punished a lot worse than the player who puts it in the sand.

So the question is: is there a strategic value in making bunker lips more penal than the bunkers themselves?

Ulrich

[Ash Towe]

Matthew,
Heather is totally unforgiving.  However the issue for me is where it is situated.  It adds to the beauty of the course but  it should not be  to close to the desired areas on any hole.

I was born and lived in Leeds till I left for NZ.  Hope you enjoy your time there, perhaps try to fit in Moortown.  It is so close.

All the best  with your trip.

[Sean_A]

So far as heather used for bunker faces/surrounds, I like it immensely.  To me, the risk of the unfortunate lie is heavily outweighed by the heather tying bunkers into the surrounding texture.  It is a fairly rare opportunity to use heather so I think it would be a great shame not to take advantage of such a feature.

Ciao

[Ulrich Mayring]

So you advocate "eye candy over strategic options"?

Ulrich

[Rich Goodale]

A couple of years ago, I played in a golf day at the Berkshire and was paired with a lovely chap in his seventies. That day, I learned how horrendous a hazard heather can be to those with a very low swing speed.

On most of the holes, he couldn't carry the heather with his drive. Once in it, he couldn't get out. Thus the golf course was essentially impossible for him.

It's beautiful stuff, especially when it is in bloom, and I am totally supportive of the heather regeneration programmes being undertaken by so many courses. But more than just about any hazard I can think of, it punishes the weak far, far more than the strong.

Giles Payne and I played behind a similarly distance-challenged gentleman at Hankley Common in September (BUDA 2011).  The geezer was in a cart accompanied by a non-playing younger guy (son?).  Why he even tried to get out of the heather those (many) times he got into it I will never know.

As for Alwoodley, the heather tends to be thinner than others (perhaps managed to be so).  Nevertheless, take your punishment and move forward, unless you have recently acquired a Bubba complex.....

[Norbert P]

  A fun old thread with some interesting replies . . .

Title:  Will Americans Ever Accept This?

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33350.msg664660/topicseen.html#msg664660
   

[Bill_McBride]

I like heather, but just as is the case with heavy rough or gorse, it needs to be used with plenty of width and/or an opportunity to hit a fat part of the fairway for a conservative play.  
Ciao

I cannot get enough of heather - love the stuff - but even I will say that there is one course in particular that I think suffers from that combination of a lack of width and thick heather flanking virtually every fairway - I think it detracts from what is otherwise a superb golf course.

If its the course I'm thinking of, I had one of my best driving days there ever after Buda.  Every hole I scoured the heather looking for my fellow players' balls and then played mine from the fairway.   There was a lot of foul language employed.  

[Sean_A]

So you advocate "eye candy over strategic options"?

Ulrich

Ulrich

Strategic options - what does that mean?  When we are talking sensible numbers and placement of bunkers (which I think in general heathland courses have), the strategy of the design is already in place - the heather is virtually a non-issue.   If we want to talk about Muirfield numbers or god forbid Lytham numbers, then the heather won't make much difference anyway.   

Ciao

[Matthew Schulte]

But it also means that if you manage to narrowly avoid a bunker, you could get stuck in the heather and be punished a lot worse than the player who puts it in the sand.

So the question is: is there a strategic value in making bunker lips more penal than the bunkers themselves?

Ulrich

I think Ulrich articulated my concern from the photos in the link I posted. If you look at the last photo in my original link (http://www.eigca.org/CaseStudies/EIGCA17995.ink) you can imagine how a ball might get hung up in the heather on the lip of the bunker, rather than bounding down into the bunker itself. The heather covered finger in that photo appears small enough to where it may be impossible to address the ball. Clearly the punishment for barely missing the green in this case would be far worse than by missing it by a wider margin and ending up in the bunker itself.  If the heather were placed on the opposite side of the bunker, further away from the green I personally believe it would make more sense.  

[Scott Warren]

Brian, to which golf course are you referring?

[Ulrich Mayring]

Matthew,

that is exactly what I am referring to. The heather specimen you showed is impossible to get out of, we would have to declare it equivalent to a pond strategy-wise. And it has been a long-standing tradition among strategic architects to avoid hazards that do not allow some sort of recovery shot. Obviously, in some situations non-recoverable hazards cannot be avoided, e. g. when dictated by the landforms. But we are talking about the deliberate planting of a patch of heather here.

I have no problem with this type of hazard if recovery is possible, but hard. However, then the architect would have to explain to me what his strategic objective is in punishing a shot, that might ordinarily miss the bunker, much more than one that was always headed right into the hazard. If that explanation makes sense (such as putting a higher risk value to a very aggressive shot that would also reap much higher rewards), then I'd declare it a good thing.

But heather that is planted just because it's beautiful (and it is!) and because it makes the bunker more visible (it does!) with no thoughts to the strategic ramifications is just eye candy. We're getting to waterfall-country here

Ulrich

[Adam Lawrence]

Ulrich - for me the key difference is that heather is natural to heathland sites, and therefore can't be seen as eye candy in the same way as an artificial waterfall. Who was it said 'Whatever is natural is never wrong'?

[Ulrich Mayring]

Adam,

I have nothing against eye candy that is out of play and I agree that it comes in good (natural) and bad (artificial) forms. But I think the strategic consequences must be considered, when it is put into play.

Ulrich

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