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Patrick_Mucci

With all the changes made to ANGC, what
« on: April 05, 2012, 10:41:09 PM »
features would you like to see restored ?

# 9 green ?

Centerline bunkers  ?

And WHY ?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: With all the changes made to ANGC, what
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 10:55:10 PM »
Here are Dan Wexler's thoughts on the subject:


Hole No.1 – Remove the row of trees most recently added off the left side of the fairway, a relatively minor change given that approaches played from the left side are already challenged substantially by the front-left bunker.  Would the hole play slightly easier?  Perhaps.  But with a robust 4.24 average in 2008 (fourth hardest overall), such would be a small price to pay in setting a tone for this historically minded quest.

Hole No.2 – Rebuild the deceased left-side fairway bunker, far enough downrange (and positioned invasively enough into the dogleg corner) to make airmailing it something less than a given.  Then remove Gene Sarazen’s right-side replacement bunker; if players wish to bail out right, add significant length to the hole and risk finding the right-side woods in the process, let them.  It is also tempting to consider unearthing the long-buried creek that Dr. MacKenzie originally planned to have crossing the second-shot landing area +/- 70 yards shy of the putting surface – but from a traditionalist perspective, that might well represent pushing the envelope a bit too bar.

Hole No.3 – Replace Jack Nicklaus’s four fairway bunkers with a restored version of the original single hazard, slightly repositioned if necessary.  For aesthetic/traditionalist reasons, mostly.

Hole No.7 – Though it’s tempting to suggest restoring the original bunkerless, Valley-of-Sin-fronted putting surface, the reality is that for most living Masters fans, the character incumbent to the seventh lies in its revised, heavily bunkered green complex.  So in order to return some greater playing interest, and minimize the now-annual complaints from Masters participants, how about either shortening the back tee to a distance more in line with the actual affects of modern equipment (perhaps in the 405-420 yard range) or remove several of the most recently added trees to allow players some reasonable room to maneuver the driver?  True, Bobby Jones did speak in positive terms of a driving area made increasingly narrow by the natural growth of trees during the 1950’s, but it’s difficult indeed to imagine he’d similarly endorse the strategy-less, U.S. Open-like hole presently in play.

Hole No.9 – Restore Dr. MacKenzie’s original single-bunker, boomerang green, a remarkably striking feature offering all manner of exciting pin placements – and whose right-side false front could still, with perhaps a bit of minor massaging, provide the same roll-down- the-hill dangers incumbent to present first-tier pins.

Hole No.11 – Remove at least 80% of the trees planted down the right side in 2002.  This, combined with the eradication of rough, would re-open the far-left and far-right avenues of play, once again allowing the eleventh to pose one of the game’s wonderful strategic questions instead of simply being a backbreakingly brutal test.

Hole No.12 – Could it hurt to once again have the right half of the green just slightly smaller than the left, and perhaps just a little bit elevated?

Hole No.13 – A modest shortening (say 10-15 yards) might shift the balance back towards going for the green in two, making one of golf’s most uniquely dramatic shots a more regular occurrence – and leading to more than the eight eagles recorded for the entire 2008 event.  Further, how about reducing the size of the first greenside bunker and re-establishing the lost section of putting surface that extended forward along the creek bank, creating a really dramatic pin placement whose slightly shorter carry might tempt even more players to have a go?

Hole No.14 – Rebuild both Dr. MacKenzie’s massive right-side fairway bunker further downrange, and some of the front-left green mounding removed in the modern era.  Such changes would succeed in re-establishing both the clear advantage gained from placing one’s tee shot down the right side and the hazard that can make accessing this area of fairway a dicey but exciting proposition.

Hole No.15 – Remove the right-side trees, and thin the left-side copse down to its original two pines.  This, combined with the renewed absence of rough, would restore the type of hole that Bobby Jones so extolled, surely resulting in more than the three (!) eagles recorded in 2008, and helping to restore the sort of Sunday afternoon drama so plainly absent in recent Masters.

Hole No.17 – Wouldn’t it be interesting to watch the world’s best attempt an utterly unfamiliar run-up shot – to a front pin perched just above the swale, in ultra firm-and-fast conditions – on Sunday afternoon with the Green Jacket on the line?  Remove the bunkers from what is presently a patently mundane hole.

Hole No.18 – The eighteenth was built to be a demanding test, and 72nd-hole birdies to win The Masters were nearly unheard of before its recent lengthening anyway – but wouldn’t Sunday afternoon be that much more fun with this hole playing, say, 20 yards shorter, allowing players a chance to hit at least a semi-attacking approach?

Here's a Geoff Shackleford article from Links Magazine where a number of architects suggest changes:

http://www.linksmagazine.com/best_of_golf/masters-augusta-national-golf-club-course-architects-changes

Here is Kelly Blake Moran's IMO piece on the subject:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/kelly-blake-moran-a-framework-for-considering-changes-at-augusta-national/
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: With all the changes made to ANGC, what
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 10:59:39 PM »
Tree removal, tree removal, tree removal. Get rid of everything planted in the last 10 years.

Play #7 at 400 yards.

Plow up the 17th and do something different... it's the most boring hole on the course.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: With all the changes made to ANGC, what New
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 11:03:00 PM »
Restoring the 9th and 16th greens would be amazing because the old greens were more strategic, IMO. For the old 9th green, if the pin was in the back, especially the back-left tongue, you would want to bomb it down the left side to get as close as possible. Plus you might not even want to attack the pin, but be more strategic with your approach. If the pin was in the front/right portion of the green, then you might want to try to place the ball on the right side of the fairway. For the new green, players try to bomb it down to the bottom of the fairway to have the best angle.

For the old 16th green, the restoration would probably have the bunkers much closer to the green. Due to it being a restoration, the green would probably be a back-left shelf, a front-left bowl, and a back-right bowl. I think the hole would play more challenging but fair and dramatic. IMO, the hole would play better then than now. With the back-right bowl, it would add some major drama. IMO, the Sunday pin in the back-right would be more entertaining then than now because it would challenge the players, but if you hit a good shot, it would stay in/go into the bowl and you would make a birdie, while now there is a ton of area that you can hit your ball and end up close to have a tap-in birdie. While the birdies and eagles being made everywhere you look on the back-nine on Sunday is amazing, it would join the other holes on the back nine where a eagle--double or worse could be made on Sunday, too. As the green is now, you never see a player make worse than a par in the last 10 groups on Sunday, it feels like. The new green is kind of dumb in my mind because you aim right at the flagstick if they are on the shelves or aim at the gigantic slope and have it feed down to the lower hole locations. There is little strategy. Plus the new green would allow them to make 17 longer which is playing much easier now than it was designed to play. It seemed like every person who hit the green was within 10 feet of the flagstick because the players had wedges in.

So I think the restoration of the 9th and 16th greens would make the the holes more strategic and would be very special.

After reading Sven and Matthew's posts, with the lengthing of 17 that i mentioned of, they should get rid of the bunker in front and have a swail like at 5 or 14
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 11:07:50 PM by Matthew Essig »
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett