[Michael George]

I have wanted to post about this topic for a long time and was waiting for a thread on this issue.  However, I never saw an opportunity to do so.

I think one of the most under-discussed features on golf courses are tee boxes.  Rightfully so, greens and green complexes receive the majority of discussion in golf course architecture.  However, I have always been a fan of great tee boxes and "tee box complexes" (if that makes sense).  They provide the first look at the hole and help me really frame the hole, but are rarely discussed.  I will try and illustrate my thoughts through Bandon as they are likely the most commonly played courses on the site.  

First, I think we all agree that the link between a tee box and the previous green is very important.  We often talk about the distance between green to tee, which certainly is important (ie. I think the walks between 8 green to 9 tee at Bandon Dunes and 13 green to 14 tee at Bandon Trails really hurt those holes).  However, I think this issue is broader and often the longer walks can be acceptable if properly presented.  For instance, how interesting and natural is the walk.  Does it provide you a "walk along the path" (ie. the walk from 17 green to 18 tee at Pac Dunes), an open walk to the elevated tee ala 11 green to 12 tee at AGNC (ie. 12 green to 13 tee at Bandon Trails), a "revealing moment" walk (ie. 3 green to 4 tee at Pac Dunes where you climb the small hill and the ocean is right there), or a "walk through the woods" where you feel like you are going to a new portion of the course (ie. 6 green to 7 tee at Bandon Trails).    

Second, I have found that tee boxes that blend into the area are much more favorable than an artificially "raised" tee box.  I understand the the elevated tee is generally preferred to non-elevated tees.  However, it has to be natural or it loses something to me.  At Bandon, I simply love the tee boxes at #1 at Old Mac and #1 at Bandon Dunes.  They are so natural walks from the clubhouse that they just feel "right".  I think all of the tee boxes at Old Mac provide the best example of natural tee boxes.  They just have a great "feel" to them.  Meanwhile, while my favorite course at the resort, the first tee at Pacific Dunes is my least favorite as it seems somewhat artificial (even if it was a natural mound).   I think it would have been better as a non-elevated tee box underneath the dune to the right in a "shute".  Another example is #2 at Bandon Dunes which just seems contrived.

Anyone else have thoughts on what they like in tee boxes and how they impact your view of a hole?  

[Mac Plumart]

Anyone else have thoughts on what they like in tee boxes and how they impact your view of a hole?

What a great question!  I've thought a lot about this, but I really haven't reached any firm conclusions.

There is no doubt that this is the starting point of each and every hole and the golf course architect needs to take great care of where to place them...as it sets up the hole, the view, the angle, all that.  And this is the only spot that the architect has complete control over EVERY golfers round.  That is, EVERY golfer will be hitting shots from this exact spot.  Does that make it the most important aspect of a golfer course?  Maybe.

[Matthew Essig]

What if it is not a tee box, but a natural flowing ribbon of short grass like at Chambers Bay?

[Michael George]

Mac - Thanks for being the one guy that reads my posts  

Old Mac really opened my eyes to the importance of tee boxes and how you can create different looks that really impact your impressions of the hole, as well as the course.  

The site has little discussion of the first impression to each hole, yet I think the best architects pay special attention to them and it really makes an impact in my opinion.

[Mark Saltzman]

Michael,

Interesting topic -- one I had not thought much about, to be honest.

Do you really think the tee box is the first think you see when you reach a hole? I can't say that I have paid much attention to the look of the tee box, usually I think I'm looking up, eager to see what the next hole looks like.

Couple of things I've noticed:

1) the holes that have the seamless transition from fairway grass around the previous green to the next tee are very cool.  Whenever I see this I like it.

2) On one single hole I have ever played (12 at Dormie), the tee box was contoured such that the back tees were lower (elevation-wise) than the forward tees... hole plays more uphill and there is a visual disadvantage when playing the tips... made a lot of sense to me and I can't understand why no one else has done this.

Aside from that, I agree, the at-grade tee boxes look better.  The ones (mostly seen in FL or AZ) which are surrounded by crushed shell / sand / desert look awfully man-made and unappealing.

Hopefully some have better answers, but appreciate your starting a unique topic. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

Sebonack has some of the coolest tee box complexes I've seen.

A few people have thought Wolf Point looks weird because there aren't any tees.
When I look at Wolf Point I see tees everywhere.

Cheers

[Ted Cahill]

I enjoy how how the 16th green and 17th tee "bleed" into each other at Bandon Trails

[Adam Makepeace]

Michael,

I would love to see greater flexibility given to greens staff to choose tee locations.

Rather than having well defined tee boxes, great expanses of short grass from the previous green to a general teeing area would be my ideal.

Of course, many variables exist with each piece of land, maintenance budgets etc, however creating more flexibility in the way a hole is set up / played each day should add to the ongoing interest of the hole.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm at Dismal River tonight, and one of the things I've got to figure out soon is how much construction we actually want to do on tees.  We've got many natural locations for the tees where they are relatively flat ... we really could just mow out a big area here and not level them out at all, but I'd guess more people would hate that than would enjoy it.

We've built a lot of cool tees in recent years, and I've started to see other architects borrowing some of the things we did at Pacific Dunes and Ballyneal and Sebonack.  While I think it's great to have cool tees, though, the important part is to have them function well and stay simple in nature.  And in the end, a lot of that has to do with putting the tee in the right place.  It helps immensely if you are not so focused on the length of the hole or the carry distance to a particular feature, and are willing just to build the tees where they fit in.

[Andy Stamm]

My ideal is something like 18 at St Andrews. It's just a few feet off the back of 17 green. There's just short grass around, and there's not much of tee other than that's where they put the tee pegs.

I think 18 tee is instructive because the one unavoidable thing on every hole (except the 1st) in working toward this ideal is going to be safety. Some distance from the previous green to the next tee is necessary. To be sure balls from 17 probably come through 18 tee. But being long left, that's certainly the side of that green that the tee could be placed the closest to the green safely. And it's routing the player directly toward the next green. There's probably not a single wasted step and the golfer walks maybe 20 paces before putting his ball back in play.

Maybe that's too unsafe for a modern design. But just move that tee up whatever amount meets the safety threshold, and there's the ideal tee.

When I see really constructed tees, they just seem a waste of effort and money to me, unless there's some problem that needs to overcome.

[Michael George]

Tom:

In my opinion, "functional and simple in nature" make for really "cool" tees and perfectly describes what I was trying to convey in my original post.  In fact, "functional and simple with nature" pretty much describes the tees at Old Mac.  

In addition, I honestly think that most golfers notice the walk between green to tee much more than the tee box - as long as the tee box is natural in appearance and in the best location to present the view of the hole.   In fact, I am a big subscriber to the importance of the walk (in addition to how good the golf is).  What I liked about what you did at Pac Dunes is that many of the walks between green to tee are not as short as the walks at Old Mac, but you connected them in a way that the player did not think about the distance.  For instance, I think the walk between 17 green and 18 tee is a truly special walk and was as memorable as many shots that I hit.    

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ops sorry keep calling you George and it’s your surname, sorry, Michael

Michael

I must admit that I have never given it much thought. Perhaps because of some of the mad and crazy Tees I have had the pleasure of using. One springs to mind which I mentioned in a recent thread being a 2-3 metre high mounds built out of old termite mounds compacted down with steps cut in the soil and with what appeared to be winter rubber mats on the top. It was a 9 Hole course with 18 Tees all or most located well off the ground. A couple of Tees had some interesting hazards in the line of flight to the Hole, that being electrical power cables criss crossing a few fairways. Other locations of real interest to me are those adjacent the sea, the one that has the best memories being the 1st at Machrihanish, now that is a Tee to kill for IMHO.

Interesting point Mac raised too, but I am not certain if the Tee always set the shot up for the Hole because I am minded of doglegs and blind Holes, which I feel may call into question the point Mac puts forward. Nevertheless I really have not given Tees perhaps the thought they may truly deserve – with the emphasis on perhaps and may.

Melvyn  

[Ronald Montesano]

Burial Mounds do!

http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/i-see-golf-courses/

[Carl Johnson]

My serious reply and my personal opinion -- what I like:

(1)  Tee boxes that you do not really notice - that don't standout.  They are just there -- just a place to get started.

(2)  Tee boxes that make you feel comfortable in hitting your tee ball.  You may hit a poor drive and put yourself in an uncomfortable position for the next shot, but the architect should not make you start the hole that way.

(3)  Location reasonably close to, but not right on top of, the prior green.  There should be enough separation that you know you are moving to a new hole, but not so much that you feel like to are making a trip to a new land.  The travel between the green to the next tee box should be a connection, not a separation.

It seems to me that (1) and (2) should be easier to accomplish than (3).  Sometimes the available land will dictate more travel from green to tee than ideal.  A real estate development almost certainly will.

[Jim_Kennedy]

The hole that lies ahead.

[JMEvensky]

Having Ivor Robson announcing the players.

[Mark McKeever]

I really like when I walk up to a tee and see a small trail that takes you to an optional teebox that you never knew existed.  I had that happen recently on hole 12 and Brigantine Beach in NJ.  The trail wrapped around the edge of the pond to a small clearing giving an entirely new angle to the hole.  Awesome.

Stonewall has one on the new course in the far back corner of hole 15 (new course).  That's also a great example.

Mark

[Adrian_Stiff]

Great tee boxes need great locations, so I think you need some good ingredients to bake the cake. Sometimes squared are right and sometimes just one sided squared up is good, sometimes irregular is good too. I dont think its one size fits all. No ones ever really pushed the boundaries of building sloping tees that make the tee shot difficult, perhaps thats beyond what is perceived as okay or perhaps it has been tried and its not good.

Some of my favourite tees would include 18th @ Pebble, 1st @ Prestwick, 2nd @ Prestwick...in fact most of the old fashioned links courses

[Ronald Montesano]

1. Why do we have tee markers within the tee boundary? Just set them on either side of the mown portion, to say "anywhere behind here is fine."

2. I don't have a problem with slightly-long walks from green to tee. With #14 at Trails, the walk could be infinitesimal and the hole would still be the hole. If the entire group is walking, so be it. If two are walking and two are riding, hitch a ride!

3. I love tees benched into hillsides. Holiday Valley in Ellicottville, NY, brought in Paul Albanese to overhaul the course and he did a swell job on the 7th hole by benching a tee into a hillside. He then elevated the 10th tee by clearing some trees, turning a bland flat par three into a tasty drop-shot hole.

4. The falsely-elevated tee stands out like Dolly Parton's upper torso; that's about the only tee I don't appreciate.

[Tim Nugent]

Michael,

Interesting topic -- one I had not thought much about, to be honest.

Do you really think the tee box is the first think you see when you reach a hole? I can't say that I have paid much attention to the look of the tee box, usually I think I'm looking up, eager to see what the next hole looks like.

Couple of things I've noticed:

1) the holes that have the seamless transition from fairway grass around the previous green to the next tee are very cool.  Whenever I see this I like it.

2) On one single hole I have ever played (12 at Dormie), the tee box was contoured such that the back tees were lower (elevation-wise) than the forward tees... hole plays more uphill and there is a visual disadvantage when playing the tips... made a lot of sense to me and I can't understand why no one else has done this.
Aside from that, I agree, the at-grade tee boxes look better.  The ones (mostly seen in FL or AZ) which are surrounded by crushed shell / sand / desert look awfully man-made and unappealing.

Hopefully some have better answers, but appreciate your starting a unique topic. 

Mark, you need to get out more.  Also, in AZ, the water conservation rules drastically limit the amount of irrigated turf (and no irrigation generally means - no turf).  So where would you rather ave grass? Around a tee box so it LOOKS more natural (as if grass in the desert ever looks natural in the first place) or in the play areas where you may end up playing a shot (unless you prefer DG over turf and don't mind scratching up your clubs).

We read threads where guys expound upon the ideas of Sustainability, keeping costs low, pace of play etc. and then you turn the page and get statements like that above.  It just leaves my head spinning.

[Ronald Montesano]

Here's a question (all right, four) for Carl, et al...why must prior hole be connected to subsequent hole? What is wrong with separation? Can a course be united when holes do not necessarily flow into each other? Must a course be united?

[Jim Franklin]

I love the tees at Ballyneal. They blend in with the surrounds perfectly. I am not sure if those tees would work everywhere though.

[Matthew Petersen]

Michael,

Interesting topic -- one I had not thought much about, to be honest.

Do you really think the tee box is the first think you see when you reach a hole? I can't say that I have paid much attention to the look of the tee box, usually I think I'm looking up, eager to see what the next hole looks like.

Couple of things I've noticed:

1) the holes that have the seamless transition from fairway grass around the previous green to the next tee are very cool.  Whenever I see this I like it.

2) On one single hole I have ever played (12 at Dormie), the tee box was contoured such that the back tees were lower (elevation-wise) than the forward tees... hole plays more uphill and there is a visual disadvantage when playing the tips... made a lot of sense to me and I can't understand why no one else has done this.
Aside from that, I agree, the at-grade tee boxes look better.  The ones (mostly seen in FL or AZ) which are surrounded by crushed shell / sand / desert look awfully man-made and unappealing.

Hopefully some have better answers, but appreciate your starting a unique topic. 

Mark, you need to get out more.  Also, in AZ, the water conservation rules drastically limit the amount of irrigated turf (and no irrigation generally means - no turf).  So where would you rather ave grass? Around a tee box so it LOOKS more natural (as if grass in the desert ever looks natural in the first place) or in the play areas where you may end up playing a shot (unless you prefer DG over turf and don't mind scratching up your clubs).

We read threads where guys expound upon the ideas of Sustainability, keeping costs low, pace of play etc. and then you turn the page and get statements like that above.  It just leaves my head spinning.

Good point about the restrictions in AZ. Even at C&C's WeKoPa Saguaro course which has many wonderful tee boxes that are connected to the previous green ... in most cases it's only the back tee where this is true. All the forward tee boxes are, by necessity, little islands of turf amongst the desert.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I really like teeboxes that are at ground level... just a mown section of turf.  like #1 at Olympic (Lake), #2 at LACC (North), and #1 at Merion (East).  The flip side is the "need" to have elevated tees, wih each teeing ground raised slightly (i.e. 6-12") higher than the one in fornt of it.. i.e. #8 at Olympic (Lake)

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, you need to get out more.  Also, in AZ, the water conservation rules drastically limit the amount of irrigated turf (and no irrigation generally means - no turf).  So where would you rather ave grass? Around a tee box so it LOOKS more natural (as if grass in the desert ever looks natural in the first place) or in the play areas where you may end up playing a shot (unless you prefer DG over turf and don't mind scratching up your clubs).

We read threads where guys expound upon the ideas of Sustainability, keeping costs low, pace of play etc. and then you turn the page and get statements like that above.  It just leaves my head spinning.

Tim, I need to get out more? What does that mean?

Have you seen the tee boxes that are built several feet up and surrounded by crushed shell / sand? They look awful.  If they were built at grade and surrounded by crushed shell I have no problem with them.  But, these OTT tee boxes, built 4 feet up, with little stairs so the golfer can get up to the tee and nice little shrubs and flowers to frame the tee box -- not for me.

Not sure how what I said even relates to sustainability. 

What do you think makes a great tee box?

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