Criticisms of Augusta Nat'l

[Adam Clayman]

http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/phils-peeved-by-course-conditions

I don't recall hearing too many say a cross word.

Certainly, anyone in this forum would be hard pressed to say a bad word.

Am I just oblivious to past comments, or are Lefties comments unique?

[Jeff_Brauer]

It was wet on Monday, but should dry out, no?  I did notice them striking their practice putts with a bigger swing than I might expect, so the greens looked slow as well.

[Michael George]

Watch the press conference on masters.org, in its entirety, he was not complaining.  Just noting that if the course does not dry out, the fear factor will be gone. 

[Tim Nugent]

I don't read these comments as criticisms of AGNC, merely stating how the recent weather has impacted the way the course plays. Something ANGC has litttle to no control over. And, who's to say, Jeff may be right and it will dry out.  Too bad Lefty didn't drop in a bit more about how Firm and Fast can evolve a good course into a great test.  Maybe Joe Club Member would read that and take it to heart.

[BCrosby]

Most interesting about Phil's comments is that they assume that resistance to scoring comes from the firmness of the greens, not their speed.

I think Phil's assumption is correct.

Which suggests that the costs involved with speeding up greens and the consequent flattening of so many of them is doubly tragic.

Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

Stephanie Wei is the best golf writer working today. She was just a bit bold with her title, but such is the blog world.  Can Shackelford eat a Sunday this cutely?

http://tinyurl.com/8x66y4y

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I thought Phil's comments yesterday in the press conference were beautifully planned.
He expressed that under current conditions it would become a birdie fest and that the less experienced will encounter less of a fear factor.
He knows full well that those comments will be taken on board by the Augusta powers who wIll ensure that scenario changes before Thursday and Lefty will get the conditions he actually wants....great comments in the correct arena to get what you want... self serving and brilliant!!!

[Phil McDade]

Andy North just said the recent rains -- another heavy downpour last night -- will benefit long players and esp. players who can carry the ball far. He mentioned Keegan Bradley as one who might benefit.

[Jeffrey Conners]

Fred Couples said yesterday that Tiger was hitting it very long.  Woods does well in soft conditions at the Masters.  I believe he reeled of seven straight birdies in 2005 after a rain delay.

[Michael George]

If it plays long and soft, I will take Rory all day.  He hits it long and high and will be dropping shots on pins like the US Open.  In fact, Phil talked about Rory's advantage in soft conditions.

I think Michael is right on point.  Phil does not hit the ball as far as he used to and he needs the faiways to run out a little and the greens to not hold certain shots to win. 

[Ben Sims]

He knows full well that those comments will be taken on board by the Augusta powers who wIll ensure that scenario changes before Thursday and Lefty will get the conditions he actually wants...

This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read in awhile.  What are they going to do?  Tell God to make it stop raining or they'll revoke his badge?  

[Mark Bourgeois]

I can't figure out who this will favour. But my feeling is not Tiger. He prefers firm turf and fast greens as he's one of the few that can really keep his bottle in uber tough conditions. But conversely, Tiger's all round ball striking is good and his short game is suspect. Firmer conditions would bring the short game into play and his straight forward wedges have been clunky of late. Although his bunker play is superb as always. Doesn't sound like criticism to me - just a statement of fact on the impact of this week's conditions.

Brian, Tiger's wins have come in years when it rained. Not only does rain wash memories off the sidewalk of life, it drains the air of pollen, to the gratitude of allergy sufferers and champion golfers.

[Kalen Braley]

Solution seems simple really.

Install sub-air system beneath the fairways in addition to the greens!! 

[Phil McDade]

If it plays long and soft, I will take Rory all day.  He hits it long and high and will be dropping shots on pins like the US Open.  In fact, Phil talked about Rory's advantage in soft conditions.

I think Michael is right on point.  Phil does not hit the ball as far as he used to and he needs the faiways to run out a little and the greens to not hold certain shots to win. 

Michael:

Mickelson still hits it farther than -- a guess, but an educated one -- 90 percent of the Masters field. Reading between the lines, I think Mickelson's comments suggests he thinks a soft course mitigates the experience factor that he and others (Tiger certainly among them) have in having played a number of Masters, vs. young guys like Bradley and Rory to some extent with not as much experience there. Augusta tends to reward players who have played there a lot, and I'm guessing Mickelson thinks that's particularly true if facing fast and firm conditions in which intimate knowledge of the course and esp. green terrains is an advantage. With soft conditions, guys can fire at pins and the tournament becomes one of who is executing better, ala Rory romping to a win at a very soft and easy US Open course last summer.

[JSlonis]

I watched Phil's press conference and wouldn't describe anything that he said as a criticism.  Merely an observation of what he saw while playing practice rounds. Seems like a media attempt to twist what he said to suit a particular story. 

I agree that Stephanie Wie usually does good work but this is definitely a case of creating something out of nothing. Phil didn't say a word about the course that should even raise an eyebrow.

[Michael George]

Phil - I agree with you.  Phil is still a longer player, but he is no longer top 10 in the field (for intance, he does not outdrive Rory, Keegan and some of the other younger players in the field).  In the past, soft conditions usually played right into Phil and Tiger's hands as they hit the ball farther than anyone else 10 years ago (when they were inexperienced  relatively).  I was just trying to say that this is not the case anymore - so he wants knowledge to be the most important factor - understandable.

Ben - while you are correct in general, they can have the sub airs humming and maximize ground crew work to make some effect - so I think both Michael and you are right in some respect.

[Garland Bayley]

He knows full well that those comments will be taken on board by the Augusta powers who wIll ensure that scenario changes before Thursday and Lefty will get the conditions he actually wants...

This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read in awhile.  What are they going to do?  Tell God to make it stop raining or they'll revoke his badge?  

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, subair?

[jeffwarne]

Phil - I agree with you.  Phil is still a longer player, but he is no longer top 10 in the field (for intance, he does not outdrive Rory, Keegan and some of the other younger players in the field).  In the past, soft conditions usually played right into Phil and Tiger's hands as they hit the ball farther than anyone else 10 years ago (when they were inexperienced  relatively).  I was just trying to say that this is not the case anymore - so he wants knowledge to be the most important factor - understandable.

Ben - while you are correct in general, they can have the sub airs humming and maximize ground crew work to make some effect - so I think both Michael and you are right in some respect.

Ben,
You and the boys get out there with a hair dryer-you still got 16 hours

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Ben..are you even with the programme here...there is this  modern invention thing called sub air that CAN control the green moiture levels and hence speed...not so ridiculous now eh mate!!!!

[Aaron McMaster]

Ben..are you even with the programme here...there is this  modern invention thing called sub air that CAN control the green moiture levels and hence speed...not so ridiculous now eh mate!!!!

Uh, I've questioned some of Bens knowledge on turf topics but you really don't know what your talking about.  Sub air can help to remove moisture so the turf has enough oxygen to survive but if it's raining a bunch it's not a bilge pump and the greens will be soft.  The place isn't in a bubble.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mother Nature can always trump man's efforts

[jeffwarne]

Ben..are you even with the programme here...there is this  modern invention thing called sub air that CAN control the green moiture levels and hence speed...not so ridiculous now eh mate!!!!

Michael,
Ben is working with the crew this week and is pretty familar with(and part of) the efforts to even make the course playable today after 1.5 inches in 15 minutes last night-after rain the night before, and the course already soft before that.
Sub air's not going to dry out fairways or clean up downed trees

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Phil was more specific in his press conference referring to the greens and thier realtive speed and where to leave the ball around the greens.
He made very little reference to the fiarway wetness..specifically saying it would be like aiming darts..that would infer into the greens...which without anymore rain will be firmer on thursday through sunday with the aid of the subair...that cannot be argued..
Now if it continues to rain...I accept my initial comments would not be accurate.
But Phil was not making reference to the weather either...he said..".if it stays as it is"...which it WONT unless more rain comes.
That was my point, they DO have the ability to change the formness of the greens and the associated speed with the use of sub air and as such, my comments WERE NOT RUBBISH

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Jeff,
I was not aware of last nights heavy rainfall, but nor was Phil at the time of his press conference which was pre anymore rain.
So I stand by my anlaysis of his deliberate statements.

[Howard Riefs]

I think Michael is right on point.  Phil does not hit the ball as far as he used to and he needs the faiways to run out a little and the greens to not hold certain shots to win.  

It does appear that Phil has lost a some distance off the tee this year:


Year:        2012 (to date)
Average:   291.2 yards
Rank:        50th

Year:         2011
Average:   299.8 yards
Rank:        T22nd

Year:         2010
Average:   299.1
Rank:         13

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?101