Bandon vs. Scotland

[Jon Wiggett]

Something that seems odd to me is lots of love for Bandon and its courses yet little to no mention of Bandon Crossing. There was a few threads about it around its opening but nobody seems to mention it which seems strange as it is so close to the much discussed Bandon.

On another angle would Bandon be discussed so much if it were in Scotland?

Jon

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Thanks for everyone's responses.  The difference of opinion reinforces in my mind that it is not an obvious choice either way.

To give you an idea of the travel schedule from the Philly area, here is a sample itinerary:

Bandon
9/19 (Wed) - Depart Philly at 5:55pm, arrive Eugene, OR at 11:55pm (one stop).  Probably stay overnight in Eugene, arrive in Bandon (3 hour drive) by 8:30am on Thursday.
9/23 (Sun) - Leave Bandon at 4:00pm, depart Eugene at 8:38pm, arrive Philly at 6:55am on Monday (one stop)
Total cost - $600 for round-trip flight

Scotland
9/19 (Wed) - Depart Philly at 6:45pm, arrive Glasow at 6:55am (non-stop)
9/24 (Mon) - Depart Glasgow at 10:30am, arrive Philly at 1:15pm (non-stop)
Total cost - $800 for round-trip flight

It's actually much easier to get to Scotland when I look at it and the cost is not significantly more.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Just to confuse matters further I will throw a third option into the mix - Lancashire!

Within an hour of Manchester airport (direct flights from most major US airports) you have a choice of a dozen or more world class links courses. Base yourself in Southport and many are literally on your doorstep.

Who needs Bandon?

http://www.southportgolftours.com/courses.asp

Best of all, you get a free round at Dr Mac's historic Reddish Vale with yours truly as you step off the plane!

[Brent Hutto]

A night in Formby dormie house and 36 holes of golf costs about what one nights lodging costs at Bandon. On a Sunday morning you can pick up a rental car at MAN, drive to Formby, drop off bags at the clubhouse and tee off on the first hole all in about an hour forty from the moment you are handed the car keys. The next morning Royal Birkdale is 20 minutes from the Formby car park. It costs for a round of golf about what a Prime season round at Bandon costs. On the day before you leave play golf with Duncan at Reddish Vale (quite a bit cheaper than Bandon!) then overnight at the Premier Inn Heald Green for $48 and you are 8-10 minutes from MAN for your morning flight.

[Dan King]

I know I said Bandon earlier, but here is an option I might take if I were you. Fly into Glasgow, and either take the short flight to Campbelltown, or the three hour drive. Buy the weekly ticket. You can easily play three of four rounds aday at Machrihanish. I'm old and fat, and I had no difficulty fitting in four rounds a day. Something about Machrihanish's turf -- it doesn't tire you out. Machrihanish does have a couple great alternatives in the area if you want more variety, say if the course gets crowded on the weekend. I haven't been there since the Dunes were added, but south of Machrihanish is Dunaverty, which is a hidden gem. And then you could even take a day trip to one of the ultimate hidden gems The Machrie in Islay. You can also take tours of some of the birthplace of some of the world's greatest Scotches.  

The hard thing is if this is your first trip to Scotland, it might be difficult to not taking the time to see some of the great courses in Scotland. You'll have to fight the urge to travel away from the Mull. If you can remain in the area, concentrating on golf, rather than travel, you'll have the perfect preview to Scottish golf, without the huge expense and crowds.

Cheers,
Dan King
 

Unlike the other Scotch game of whiskey drinking, excess in it is not injurious to the health.
  --Sir Walter Simpson  (The Art of Golf)

[Michael Essig]

Maybe this is off topic Bandon v. Scotland, but why not Ireland?  If you are looking for something different than typical American golf, you can play Lahinch and Ballybunion 1 hour from each other (and 1 hour from Limerick), staying in Limerick and driving to each.  Portmarnock is just outside Dublin, so you can play it on arrival day or departure day.  Limerick to Dublin is only about 2.5 hours of driving, so you have plenty of time to sightsee.  That leaves Royal County Down about 2 - 2.5 hours from Dublin, or other alternatives closer to Dublin with less driving.  To sum it up, 4 rounds in 5 days with an additional day of travel and only one hotel change and plenty of time to sightsee.  Longest drive is Dublin to Limerick if you eliminate RCD.  Just a thought.  But, as many others have said, doing this with only a few people makes the logistics much simpler.

[William_G]

Go with your heart and make it happen!

win-win

[Jud_T]

Admittedly it's a tough call from the East Coast, although a good friend who lives in NY and has been all over the globe golfing has Bandon as his favorite place.  From the Midwest it's a no-brainer. 

[Bill Brightly]

Is this the last golf trip you will ever take? If yes, you have a tough choice

[jeffwarne]

Thanks for everyone's responses.  The difference of opinion reinforces in my mind that it is not an obvious choice either way.

To give you an idea of the travel schedule from the Philly area, here is a sample itinerary:

Bandon
9/19 (Wed) - Depart Philly at 5:55pm, arrive Eugene, OR at 11:55pm (one stop).  Probably stay overnight in Eugene, arrive in Bandon (3 hour drive) by 8:30am on Thursday.
9/23 (Sun) - Leave Bandon at 4:00pm, depart Eugene at 8:38pm, arrive Philly at 6:55am on Monday (one stop)
Total cost - $600 for round-trip flight

Scotland
9/19 (Wed) - Depart Philly at 6:45pm, arrive Glasow at 6:55am (non-stop)
9/24 (Mon) - Depart Glasgow at 10:30am, arrive Philly at 1:15pm (non-stop)
Total cost - $800 for round-trip flight

It's actually much easier to get to Scotland when I look at it and the cost is not significantly more.

To further Dan's point
Thurs land in Glasgow 7 am, leave airport 8, play Western Gailes 10ish am......finish 2:00ish catch 3;15 ferry(55 min),eat lunch on ferry arrive Arran 4:10 drive across Arran catch 5:00 ferry(30 min) arrive Cambeltown 6:00 pm ish-eat dinner, relax    travel on ferries is easy
Fri Machrihanish, Dunaverty  -stay Cambeltown again
Sat Machrihanish Dunes, Carradale (9) catch ferry(30 min)   stay Arran next to Shiskine
Sun Play Shiskine(12 holes), catch ferry to mainland, play Prestwick -stay Glasgow airport or Ayr

wonderful 4 day itinerary-beautiful scenery on ferries and Arran

however, given 4 only days I might just choose bandon

[Dan King]

jeffwarne writes:
Sun Play Shiskine(12 holes), catch ferry to mainland, play Prestwick -stay Glasgow airport or Ayr

Shiskine is on my itinerary for whenever I get back to Scotland. I have a special place in my heart of 12 hole courses. I think 12 holes works as a complete course much better than 18. I was wondering if you ever have played The Machrie on Islay. I just think The Machrie is like the perfect hidden gem golf course. If you have played both, what would make you pick Shiskine over The Machrie? Is it just because the ferry going back goes through Arran or do you like Shiskine better?

Cheers,
Dan King

It can now be argued that golf was the first human game played on another planetary body. Those two shots Alan Shepard hit with a six iron at the "Fra Mauro Country Club" have brought a certain stature and gleam of the eye to golfers the world over.
 --Michael Murphy

[jeffwarne]

jeffwarne writes:
Sun Play Shiskine(12 holes), catch ferry to mainland, play Prestwick -stay Glasgow airport or Ayr

Shiskine is on my itinerary for whenever I get back to Scotland. I have a special place in my heart of 12 hole courses. I think 12 holes works as a complete course much better than 18. I was wondering if you ever have played The Machrie on Islay. I just think The Machrie is like the perfect hidden gem golf course. If you have played both, what would make you pick Shiskine over The Machrie? Is it just because the ferry going back goes through Arran or do you like Shiskine better?

Cheers,
Dan King

It can now be argued that golf was the first human game played on another planetary body. Those two shots Alan Shepard hit with a six iron at the "Fra Mauro Country Club" have brought a certain stature and gleam of the eye to golfers the world over.
 --Michael Murphy

I love The machrie, but it's a three hour car ride from glasgow + a two hour ferry+ then the return ferry + another hour + down to machrihanish
Just a lot for 4 day trip

He could do all that and play The Machrie on arrival day(I've done that as the ferry is relaxing) stay there Thursday night, play again in the morning and then hit Carradale that Fri afternoon on the way to Cambeltown.
Play Machrihanish and Dunaverty Saturday
Mach Dunes and Shiskine on Sunday
That sounds pretty darn good too

[Dan King]

jeffwarne writes:
I love The machrie, but it's a three hour car ride from glasgow + a two hour ferry+ then the return ferry + another hour + down to machrihanish
Just a lot for 4 day trip

Okay, i was just checking. I hear wonderful things about Shiskine, and it is definitely on my list for any return to Scotland. However, if you were saying it is better than Machrie I might just have to make a special trip just to check it out. 

Yeah, Islay is close to the Mull, but still a big trip away. In the height of summer you might be missing out on four potential round at Machrihanish, for one or two rounds at Machrie. However, for a Scotch lover like myself, it is difficult to be that close to Islay and not make the pilgrimage. Discovering The Machrie over there just makes Islay that much more of a special place. However, you are right, dedicating a day to Islay might be tough on a four-day golf trip.

Cheers,
Dan King

There were years when I was a beer and tequila guy, then I got real fat. And then I found that you could actually go on a diet and drink scotch. Then I got hooked on scotch, and if you get hooked on scotch, then everything else just tastes wrong.
 --Ron White

[Sean_A]

Never been to either place and I live on the East Coast of the US (Philly).  Factoring in travel, cost, quality of golf, time and the overall experience... where would you recommend I go for a 3-5 day trip?

To that end, I would love to see a side by side cost comparison of a quality trip to Scotland (including TOC) versus Bandon.

Geoffrey

If you have not been to either I gotta believe your heart is pulling toward Scotland - whos wouldn't?  If you do go the Scottish route for 3-5 days, don't get caught up in ferries and long drives.  Pick an easy place to get to with plenty of golf options and hang about - yer proposing a holiday - not a forced march.  You can thank me later.

Ciao

[Brent Hutto]

Never been to either place and I live on the East Coast of the US (Philly).  Factoring in travel, cost, quality of golf, time and the overall experience... where would you recommend I go for a 3-5 day trip?

To that end, I would love to see a side by side cost comparison of a quality trip to Scotland (including TOC) versus Bandon.

Geoffrey

If you have not been to either I gotta believe your heart is pulling toward Scotland - whos wouldn't?  If you do go the Scottish route for 3-5 days, don't get caught up in ferries and long drives.  Pick an easy place to get to with plenty of golf options and hang about - yer proposing a holiday - not a forced march.  You can thank me later.

Ciao

Given the "including TOC" that I somehow overlooked previously, there really isn't any option on the "Scotland" side of the equation is there?

You fly into to Glasgow or Edinburgh (whichever one you can get an affordable direct flight from Philly), rent a car and drive to St. Andrews. Leave on a Saturday, arrive on a Sunday so you can walk TOC when you get there.

Pitch up for Sunday/Monday/Tuesday nights in a B&B, try the ballot every day for TOC and otherwise just play the New, Jubilee, etc.

After golf finishes on the Wednesday, drive back to the airport. Overnight in a Travelodge or Premier Inn and fly back to Philly the next morning. Mission accomplished.

Budget

Lodging 50-60 quid per night times four nights (plus a night on the plane). Call it $360.

190 quid ($300) for a 3-day Links Trust pass and 150 ($240) for each time you make it out onto the Old Course.

About 150 quid ($240) for rental car and petrol.

Allow 50 pounds ($80) per day for food and drinks if you don't get too carried away with either.

I get about $1,500 plus airfare for three days of golf plus seeing the Old Course (assuming you get to play it once along wit walking it on arrival Sunday. Play two rounds a day if you like on the three-day pass.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Dan K

Next time on Islay may I suggest seeking out the old lost - well now found course that confused many a golf writer in the past. Many thought Old Tom was involved with Machrie but his course was not built until 1896 and further away called Uisguintuie near Bridgend. It is today just plain fields overlooking the sea.

If you decide during your pilgrimage for the rare Islay Sing Malt ‘Water of Life’ after playing Machrie to check out the lost course, let me know and I will send you some info including a map  and original newspaper report with course map.

Melvyn

[Keith Phillips]

Given the "including TOC" that I somehow overlooked previously, there really isn't any option on the "Scotland" side of the equation is there?

Your plan is a good one, but there are actually a number of other options nearby that may be worth checking out instead of or on top of New/Jubilee/Castle etc - with a base in Fife you can very easily (and economically) play Crail, Elie, Lundin etc - all are very worthwhile, and I will always include a day at Crail on future trips to the area (check out the Craighead profile under Courses by Country - that is a mighty good 'second course'!)  If budget is not an issue, Kingsbarns is an absolute must - it is one of the great modern golf courses in the UK.  Carnoustie is only an hour's drive, and if you are able to satisfy your TOC fix early, you can always shoot down to East Lothian and play any number of special clubs, from Muirfield to North Berwick to Gullane etc etc.  A good source for all-things Scotland is www.golfnook.com - you should check that out

[Mark Chaplin]

Brent what would the same Bandon trip roughy cost out of interest for Mr Philly?

[Brent Hutto]

In prime summer season something like this...

Let's assume you spend three of the four nights in a single room at the Lodge but either the night of arrival or the night before departure may be at a much cheaper hotel near the Eugene or Portland airports or something.

Three nights in a single room at the Lodge $765.
Three 36-hole days of golf $1,035.
Rental car and gas for driving to/from airport (or a shuttle service each way from North Bend) $200.
Budget $50/day for food and drink on your three full days at the resort $150.

So I get $2,150 plus airfare(s) which vary depending on how you connect and/or how far you fly vs. driving. Probably a couple hundred less in total than transatlantic.

So I'd reckon ignoring things like caddies and souvenirs and rounding off the air transport stuff it's about $2,700 for three 36-hole days at Bandon versus $2,300 for three 36-hole days in St. Andrews including a walk plus maybe a round at TOC. And door-to-door total travel time is probably about the same or maybe an hour longer for the Scotland option.

The Bandon trip can be made about $400 cheaper (per person) by having a second person along to split costs (lodging and rental car splits) versus a savings of only $250 on the same splits in Scotland.

P.S. When I ran costs for a Bandon trip for myself this September, my initial scenario was as above but flying all the way to North Bend and using the shuttle then staying all four nights at the resort. I came up with either a bit less or a bit more than $3,000 depending on whether a wanted to grab a round of golf late in the day of arrival. That was assuming no caddies but being pretty generous with my food+drink budget. I also budgeted $150 round trip for shipping my clubs to avoid the horror stories I've heard about the puddle jumper's luggage capacity. There are ways of saving somewhat on the Bandon option by staying off-resort.

P.P.S. My budget is about that same number for doing three 36-hole days at Ganton plus rounds coming (Reddish Vale) and going (Notts) plus one day free for sightseeing in Yorkshire/Nottinghamshire/Peak District. The airfare on that trip was no bargain, alas.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Geoffery,

We're (2 of us) heading to Bandon week after next. 3 days on site, 4 nights, 2 days travel R/T PDX. We're going off high season so the cost will be less.

The same 2 went to Scotland last year. We come from different places and met in Cruden Bay. Iteniary:

Day 0. Arrive EDI/ABZ
Day 1. 36 - Cruden Bay
Day 2. 36 - Castle Stuart
Day 3. 18 - Murcar (This was an open tournament. Check the websites to see if they're available when you're going to be there)
Day 4. 36 - Royal Aberdeen Balgownie
Day 5. No Ballot. Drive to St. Andrews. 18 Lundin Links
Day 6. No Ballot. Up at 2am, in Queue at 2:30am. 18 TOC, 18 Levan Links after pm nap
Day 7. 18 Carnoustie
Day 8. 18 Kingsbarns
Day 9. 18 No Ballot. New Course, Drive to EDI - Depart
 
You can play different courses obviously, but including B&B, rental car, and caddies, it was about $3400 on the ground. You'll do better with the current exchange rate. We made all the arrangements ourselves, and called some places up that week, or that day to finalize. We had some flexibility so we didn't play all the time as there isn't much fun in making a tee time that day in a teeming rain.

For comparison purposes here's what I did with a different group in Ireland back in '09. Costs were less - about $2800. We had 7 go on this trip.

Day 1. Stuck due to T-Storms in Newark
Day 2. Fly to Belfast.
Day 3. am, Arrive Belfast, drive to Rosapenna, Donegal. 18 Old Tom Morris
Day 4. 18 OTM AM, Rain PM - Pub
Day 5. 18 Sandy Hills AM. Cruitt Island PM
Day 5. 18 Sandy Hills AM. 18 OTM PM
Day 6. Drive to Port Salon. 18. Drive to Portrush
Day 7. 18 Royal Portrush Dunluce
Day 8. Port Stewart Strand AM. Riverview PM.
Day 9. Giant's Causeway. 18 Royal County Down. Drive to Belfast.
Day 10. 18 Ardglass
Day 11. Return.

Bandon is much easier to plan from a logistics standpoint - everything is right there. Write down what you want to accomplish. If you're going to Scotland or Ireland, do some digging and see if there are any open tournaments to enter. Those can be fun and will certainly improve on the cost per round figure.

I suspect you'll have a great time whichever direction you go.

[Brad Wilbur]

After having made two Bandon trips and one Scotland trip, if I had only one trip to make, the Scotland trip is unbeatable.  I would just make sure to stop and smell, if not the roses, the castles.  After arriving at Glasgow airport, we stopped by Rosslyn Chapel (from "The DaVinci Code") and still made an afternoon tee time at North Berwick.  Other impressive castle ruins are south of Berwick, on the way north from Carnoustie to Cruden Bay, and close to Cruden Bay.  Bandon has great golf, but for one trip, the Scotland experience is tough to beat.

[Norbert P]

  Geoffrey, if you go to Bandon first, then you will need to go to Scotland.  If you go to Scotland, you will be compelled to go to Bandon.

  I know this does not help your dilemma but you should be warned of impending hungers.



  3-4 days in Scotland?  Not even enough time to learn to drive comfortably in the left lanes.  The place needs a bit more time for personal immersion into the culture.  Haggis doesn't taste good until you've had it 7 or 8 times.

 

[Mark_F]

Three nights in a single room at the Lodge $765.
Three 36-hole days of golf $1,035.

You have to be kidding.  $1800 for three days of golf? 

If this is "Golf as it was meant to be", what is it meant to be for people other than Warren Buffet?

[Rich Goodale]

Three nights in a single room at the Lodge $765.
Three 36-hole days of golf $1,035.

You have to be kidding.  $1800 for three days of golf? 
Buffet?

At the end of April you can get three days of 36-hole golf at Dornoch, Castle Stuart and Brora for ~half that price (see www.royalgolfhoteldornoch.co.uk).  If you only want 18/day (one at Dornoch, two at castel Stuart) it is ~$500.  From Newark to Dornoch is about 12 hours travel time each way (8 by air (non-stop) and 4 by car).  The weather will be similar to Bandon (i.e. variable!) and you'd have the bonus of ~15 hours of daylight each day.  For me, at least, this is still a no-brainer.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Red OR white wine? 


Red vs. White is not really a very interesting question, one must make time for both.
How do you know which is the best until you've sampled them all?  That's never going to happen.  Then it depends on the situation and the company.

A life with such questions can't be too bad.


Sláinte.