[Jim McCann]

I mentioned in a thread last month that the www.top100golfcourses.co.uk website was updating its US state ranking lists
with a view to having this process completed by the end of March.

Well, I can confirm that we have now finished the task of extending our coverage of US courses from just over 300 to almost
900.

Click the following link then select an area:
 
http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/country.asp?id=177

Constructive criticism welcome...

[Peter Ferlicca]

Hey Jim,

Looks good

I would say that Wine Valley deserves to be in the Top 5 of Washington, and Snoqualmie should move out of the Top 5.

[Mark Johnson]

Minnesota is pretty much in the ballpark.  Completely agree with top 5, though my order would be different.

Personally I think Somerset (10th), Northland (8th) are a bit too low;   Somerby (9th) Woodhill (14th), Deacons Lodge (16th) also feel high.

Also think Rush Creek and Dacatoh Ridge probably merit top 10 status.

[JSlonis]

New Jersey state list looks ok for selection of courses but the order of ranking needs some  work.

[hhuffines]

I have enjoyed your site for years - well done!  Your North Carolina list is very similar to the GD list and I wonder about Champion Hills?  Is it really top 10?   I've never heard it discussed much, particulary at such a lofty place.   I think you could switch Charlotte CC for Mountaintop.   Thanks...

[mike_beene]

Texas certainly has a lot of courses so not sure how you could accurately cover them but would agree with about  half of the picks overall and would very much disagree with the order.Maybe 20 of the courses would be in my top 40. The other 20 might not crack the top 100. Just one persons opinion.

[Jonathan Mallard]

I think it's interesting that the Champion's courses at Tanglewood and Bryan Park don't make the NC list.

Good enough for a USGA championship and the PGA and a major Seniors event for many years.

[Andy Troeger]

Jim,
The Culver Academies course doesn't belong on the Indiana state list. Greens have shrunk, bunkers no longer exist, and the 6th hole is atrocious. South Bend CC is miles ahead of it. There are probably 100 other courses more deserving in their current state. The academy course isn't the best course in Culver--Mystic Hills is far better.

Also, Black Mesa in NM is far more interesting than Las Campanas for the #2 spot.

Otherwise both states look pretty reasonable to me.

[David Kelly]

Rustic Canyon #46 in California and behind the likes of Trump National, Olympic Ocean, Bridges at Santa Fe, Eldorado, Torrey South, and Sherwood???

[Sam Morrow]

Texas certainly has a lot of courses so not sure how you could accurately cover them but would agree with about  half of the picks overall and would very much disagree with the order.Maybe 20 of the courses would be in my top 40. The other 20 might not crack the top 100. Just one persons opinion.

It was an odd list.

[Ronald Montesano]

New York:
#15 Hudson National is out of place
#18 Deepdale is out of place
#19 Saratoga National is way too high on everyone's lists
#31 Hiawatha Landing is out of place
#36 Kaluhyat is out of place
#38 Pound Ridge is out of place

I can't help but notice the metro NYC bias to your list. I won't deny that the state's best courses are over that way, but I don't believe that enough work was done to truly measure the entire state.

If you put courses like K, HN, SN and HL in there, without listing Crag Burn, there's been an oversight.

Creating lists is a thankless job and some would argue, a useless one. They are based on opinion, not fact. Unlike courts and pitches, there are no strict parameters for a golf course, hence the disparity of opinion.

Congratulations on completing this task/goal, Jim.

[Mark Johnson]

I have a few more issues with the Illinois list.

Ranked way too low
Black Sheep #13
Bull Valley #22   A hike to get there, but an incredible test of parkland golf at its best

Ranked too high
Shoreacres #2-- should still be top 6 or 7 but 2 is pushing it when you look at who is below
Knollwoord #14
Beverly #10    I like this course, but it just simply as memorable as many below it

Can't believe they aren't top 30

- Pine Meadow  the 2nd best public in the chicagoland
- Medinah #1  incredible underrated due to its big brother;  i actually prefer it to #3

[Ronald Montesano]

Jim,

Is there a metric that you use, that you are at liberty to share? I like to consider the legitimacy of a ranking system when viewing its results. Otherwise, results are empty.

[Joe Stansell]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for sharing. I agree with Peter Ferlicca about Wine Valley. Its omission on your list casts serious doubt about the credibility of your ranking for Washington State.

[Jim McCann]

Thanks for the feedback on the new US state rankings.

Ronald

The Top 100 team took all the ranking data available from whatever source it could find - including the monthly golf publication annual/bi-annual lists, the Rolex Top 1000 book, Wexler's Golf Guide books and the Zagat Guide - and basically created a chart of charts per US state.

A number of gca members also chipped in with their Doak scale rankings for several states, which was much appreciated.

Actually, what we did was much the same as we do for ALL the Top 100 listings we produce - no course ever appears as if it has been plucked out of thin air; it has to have been ranked in some sort of publication beforehand.   

[SL_Solow]

Illinois is so far off it is not worth a detailed critique.

[Mac Plumart]

Jim...check me if I have this correct.

Similiar to your other Top 100 type of lists, you take an amalgamation of all available Top 100 lists and combine them (with some of your site's reader's input) to derive an aggregate Top 100 list.  Now the state lists may not be a Top 100, rather a Top 20, or 10...or whatever...but the aggregation process remains the same.

Correct?

If this is the case, the lists where you aggregate from have to be of a certain quality for your list to end up being quality.  Right?

I've looked at the state lists of the major golf ranking entities (Golf Digest, Golfweek, etc) and to be frank they need some work.  And if the lists you are pulling from need work, then in the end your list will need some work. 

I have seen some major improvement in the Golfweek public Georgia list recently, but it isn't nearly as fine tuned as the Top 100 Classics list at Golfweek...for example.

And for the record, I think these state lists (especially public) are perhaps the most important for the retail golfer.  So, we need to get this kind of thing right.

[Jim McCann]

Mac,

I agree 100%.

If the (supposedly respectable) sources that Top 100 draws its data from are suspect then we stand guilty as charged for compounding the golfing felony.

  

[Jason Topp]

One problem with using Golfweek's list is that it only includes public courses which makes it difficult to reconcile with a list that includes both public and private courses.

In my opinion the Minnesota list is pretty far off but it is difficult to differentiate at the state level because the quality can get pretty interchangeable once you get outside of the top 50 or so in the country.  I would be more concerned about whether the methodology makes sense.

[RJ_Daley]

It seems to me that this is another good resource for those travelling to an area that want an overview.  I couldn't care less about rankings in their order, because there is always someone who feels their favorite got slighted, ranked too low, etc.  I like that you have a narrative on courses listed.  I appreciate the work put into the project, and while it isn't a bible, it is a great guide to give folks another tool to explore new areas, and perhaps confirm one's own taste about courses they have actually played that are on these lists.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
I tend to agree with you that a lot of the state lists from all publications need some work. Why do you think these are so hard to get right?

[Brian Stewart]

Mac,
I tend to agree with you that a lot of the state lists from all publications need some work. Why do you think these are so hard to get right?

I also wonder about this.  I really struggle with the AZ list.  Even if I remove the club that I am a member with due the possibility of bias and concede that most the courses in the list belong somewhere in the list I still just can't reconcile it.  I've played every course on there, most multiple times, and it just doesn't make sense to me. 
Examples:
Seven Canyons in 7th place! Even as admitted Weiskopf fan (don't hate me) I can't put it anywhere near that
Forest Highlands (Meadow) 12th-Not sure it belongs although I do think it is unfairly judged against Canyon most of the time
Gold Canyon (Dinosaur) in 15th!

To me, it almost looks like someone tried to rank the courses based on which one was the prettiest and ignored the golf aspect. 

[Craig Van Egmond]

The Oklahoma list is close.. one might quibble about the ordering, but Chickasaw Pointe needs to drop out and The Patriot Golf Club needs to be in the top 5 somewhere.

[Andy Troeger]

Good call on The Patriot--I did notice that its missing. Should be top five at least. Pikewood National is also probably better than #5 in WV--I'd be surprised if its not #2. I'd be very surprised if Shooting Star isn't #1 in WY.

Brian,
I think AZ is a really tough state to rate. I've played most of the courses once and have a tough time seeing a ton of difference between most of the second tier courses. I think Forest Highlands Canyon and We-Ko-Pa Saguaro separate themselves, and then its tough for me to get too excited about where everything else falls. I tend to like the courses up in the mountains better than the desert courses, so Forest Highlands Meadow would actually make my top ten. Seven Canyons probably would not. Gold Canyon has two great holes (#3 and 4), but its not a top 20 in the state course. The Boulders isn't close. I like Blackstone better than many of the courses listed and would list Desert Mountain Renegade in the top ten.

[Keith OHalloran]

Ronald,
Re the New York list, when you say that the courses are not ranked correctly, I assume you mean they are too high? I have not played the courses you cite, can you tell me a little about why each one is mis ranked?

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