For contemporary designers, how important...

[Dan Herrmann]

For contemporary designers, how important is knowledge of landscape architecture?

Personally, I think it can only help.

(and yes, I know the ODG's didn't normally have a background in landscape architecture)

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:

That depends on what you mean by "landscape architecture".

By far the three most important skills I learned at Cornell were:

1)  How to read topographic maps and draw a grading plan;

2)  How to interpret aerial photographs, a class which I never thought had any practical purpose when I was in school or for several years afterward, but which Google Earth has changed my mind on completely; and


I wish I'd learned better about how to visualize a planting plan and how it would evolve over time, which you would think would be one of the core components of a landscape architecture education, but I did not master that, and on relfection I am not sure how it could really be taught.

I did learn a lot about how to approach "design" but only in vague ways that have helped me muddle through it myself.  "The design process" that everyone is taught in school is an approach to sorting out what's important, but it doesn't really help you to see the things you need to see to be a good designer.

P.S.  There are lots of other pieces of education which "can only help" -- including business, construction, business law, writing, and interpersonal skills.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom,
Your observation about the planting plan was what I was thinking about.   I lived in my Oregon townhouse for 8 years, and its rear courtyard was professionally laid out and planted.

After about 4 years, everything grew together and I needed a weekend of major pruning.  Tried hard, but it never looked as it did when new.

For golf, the "lightbulb moment" was my trip to Cobbs' Creek this winter.  To see the tree growth they put up in the not-too-distant past was shocking.  Former corridors are now completely choked.

----
Secondarily, another factor is the "art" of golf architecture (something I've gotten at previously).  The Olmstead-type of landscape architecture, and how important a study of Olmstead et. al. may be to golf design.

[Jeffrey Stein]

I often ask myself this same question as I started out in the golf business as a caddy with a degree in economics.  I have also asked Tom and others what it takes to make it in golf design and have come to understand that experience counts for a whole lot when building/designing golf courses. 

Do I need a masters degree in Landscape Architecture?  Will I ever design my own golf course without it, I really have no idea.  But if I continue to get my foot in the door, work on cool projects, and continue to build my skills in areas that are lacking, its got to add up to something..

[Jonathan Mallard]

I'll go ahead and stereotype myself as an engineer, but one thing that I think would be helpful is some knowledge of drainage.

I'm speaking more from the overall site drainage perspective. Not about how to drain bunkers and how greens drain - although those are certainly topics that should be discussed.

When you start disturbing a site, you start having to think about how it's going to react to storms - which will happen.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dan,

I basically agree with Tom Doak on his answer, and points 1, 2 and the PS.  I rarely do planting plans, although, on my recent trip to Vegas for GIS, I had a chance to go by one of the few courses I did plant from scratch - Stallion Mountain - and was quite pleased with the overall results 18 years of maturing later.  Looked pretty much like I imagined, although even leaving spaces between my clumps of trees, they grew together more and visually more from the tee vantages than I thought, slightly erasing the open clumps feel I imagined.......

That said, an LA degree is, IMHO, the best basic training, but I didn't really know anything about gca until working a few years for Killian and Nugent.  I suspect the same is true for almost anyone in the biz, that they had some kind of mentor that really taught them routing, grading for golf, construction, etc. etc. etc.

[Carl Rogers]

If you want to be a MD, you have to take organic chemistry and thus the LA degree as the essential foundation GCA.  There are, IMO, exceptions to this but they are exceedingly rare.  What has separated the truly superior golf experiences, from just plain hard to play & immaculately maintained golf courses is the contrast and composition of the orchestrated landscape experience that just happens to be a golf course.

[Dan Herrmann]

Carl - very nicely put.  Thanks for sharing

[Tom_Doak]

If you want to be a MD, you have to take organic chemistry and thus the LA degree as the essential foundation GCA.  There are, IMO, exceptions to this but they are exceedingly rare.  What has separated the truly superior golf experiences, from just plain hard to play & immaculately maintained golf courses is the contrast and composition of the orchestrated landscape experience that just happens to be a golf course.

Carl:

The only problem with that answer is that Tillinghast, George Thomas, Donald Ross, Harry Colt and Alister MacKenzie never had a single course in landscape architecture.  [Though, presumably, Dr. MacKenzie had a course in organic chemistry or its 1900 equivalent.]

I don't really think an L.A. degree IS the essential foundation of golf course architecture.  [As Jeff says, apprenticeship is.]  The L.A. degree is just a pre-requisite to getting a job in most designers' offices, the same as you have to ace organic chemistry to get into med school -- it's a controlled system.   Almost none of my recent group of associates has an L.A. degree, yet they are all extremely capable designers in their own right.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom,
That's true, but folks like you have a LOT more to worry about than the ODG's.   Maybe one needs to be an environmental attorney

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,
That's true, but folks like you have a LOT more to worry about than the ODG's.   Maybe one needs to be an environmental attorney

Dan:

Absolutely true -- but for that stuff we have a lot of consultants, and we learn about the issues through years of experience.  I never learned much about any of that in school.  Maybe some of the kids today do, at least about sustainability [but not about how it applies to golf].