Punchbowl greens - Seen any built lately ?

[Robert_Walker]

Patrick Mucci,
I looked in my file, and found a 1989 scorecard from St Andrew's. It is their centenary card, and 14 is called "Punchbowl." I looked at my pictures, and indeed the 14th green is bowl shaped.
Today, I looked at Nicklaus's www, and they have a scorecard of St Andrew's that lists the 14th as "tassie."
So I do not know.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Robert Walker,

What is the par and length of the old 14th punchbowl hole ?

Also what is the par, length and names of the holes that preceeded the old 14th and the holes that followed it ?

Several holes were abandoned, and new ones created, so I'll try to piece it together.

[Robert_Walker]

Patrick,
Today par 4 414 yd 10 hcp  Punchbowl
1989   par 4 404 yad 10 hcp Tassie

Was Nicklaus's 1985 remodel remodeled?

[noonan]

Played Miami Valley GC yesterday.
1917 Donald Ross architect.
14 is a 320 yard hole.
Punchbowl green.

Jerry

[Mike Hendren]

Par 5 sixth hole at Black Creek is an Alps hole with a punch-bowl.  Fun, fun, fun (even without a T-Bird).

Regards,

Mike

[Jeff_Brauer]

I built a punch bowl at Ridgeview Ranch in Plano, Texas, about 1996.  Its a favorite hole, because you can hit anything from a 8 to a 5 iron on this short par 3.

[Lester George]

I just finished recreating the Punch Bowl green at The Old White Course at The Greenbrier (9th hole).

I used an old aerial photo for research and incoporated some new elevation to arrest water from overburdening the back of the green.  I would love to send a picture but I'm not sure how.  If anyone wants to walk me through it, I would be happy to try.

[Mike_Cirba]

Can someone with a website help Lester George to post his pics?  

I for one would love to see it.  

[BCrosby]

A second vote for the punch bowl no. 6 at Black Creek. Great fun.
Especially with a totally blind approach.

Bob

[ForkaB]

There are two punchbowls at Dornoch (8 and 17).  Both have interesting internal contours (and size) which add to their charm.  Particularly, the ability to have pinnable positions near the slopes (front, back, left and right) makes the approach shot much more than just a "hit it in the general direction and the ball will filter down to the hole" affair, which I have seen at more than one famous green of the genre........

[TEPaul]

Again, the mother of all "punchbowl" greens is the new iteration of Mountain Lake's new #15. It's hard to describe how much of a punchbowl and punchbowl effect it really is.

But what about that Lahinch par 3? Has that been mentioned? Isn't that the mother of all punchbowl greens. I haven't played the hole in about 45 years but that's the way I remember it. The spectrum of possible club selection and shots to get basically the same effect was astounding. If the pin was approximately where the drain on a basin would be I recall it appeared to be about the easiest hole to make a 1 of any I've ever seen.

[TEPaul]

Actually, just the other day I went to Somerset Hills G.C. in NJ. The golf chairman mentioned that #10 green was a Hal Purdy green moved maybe 50-60 yards back from Tillinghast's old #10 green. He also said the present Purdy green was giving them problems, that it had real light and contour problems and that they were thinking of doing something else with #10 green.

But the interesting thing is Monday was the first time they'd used present #10 green this year and they'd been using a lined-out temp green on the fairway about 50-60 yds short of the present green.

On closer inspection the temp green on the fairway turned out to be the sort of low profile original "punchbowl" green of Tillinghast's original #10 green--all the punchbowl contours are still there on the fairway!

[TEPaul]

Although a bit off the subject of punchbowl greens--still a story worth mentioning.

I just mentioned the old Tillinghast punchbowl green on #10 Somerset Hills that's now part of the contour of the 10th fairway.

But I should mention the really unique "swale" in the center of Somerset Hills's #13 green. The other day as we approached that swale one of my playing partners mentioned that a well respected lady amateur and her playing partners were approaching that swale during an early morning round and to their complete shock there in the swale was a couple making love. Would that be considered a "temporary obstruction" or an "outside agency" or perhaps "ground under repair" allowing for free relief?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Spokane CC, I want to say #5 is a classic punchbowl.  On a hot day you could fill it with water and use it as the club wading pool!

[ward peyronnin]

Gents,

I think it is the sixth at Black Creek in Chatanooga( a Silva Raynor inspired course: a very nice par five with a huge 15 foot high ridge across the fairway with a basal cross bunker at ~ 100 yds out. The punchbowl green is about 16-20 ksf and rectangular. It is a really surprising sight cresting that ridge'; i think it even has a round target on a pole behind the green like at NGF.

I guess I should keep quiet but the 13th at TR is my least favorite hole on the course as I think it is really manufactured with all the wrong reasons in mind; double dogleg really doesn't present strategy but dictates line of play and then the pitch to the green is so penal that to me it violates the tenent of  punchbowls I've seen which is you manage to hold a blind shot ON LINE you are rewarded by a feed to a favorable spot on the green. Really the approach plays more like an alps hole but when I was there the grass banks sorrounding the green were so long you couldn't make aplay out off them.

[ward peyronnin]

Sorry I thought i'd scrolled to the end.

Black Creek has a lo of interesting holes. It is one of the few courses suffering from housing blight that truly doesn't desreve to be.

[archie_struthers]

Number 11 at Twisted Dune is a punchbowl akin to Strantz hole at Tobacco Road with fairly gentle contours.

[JWL]

PM

Jack Nicklaus is a pretty big fan of punchbowl greens and a few that he has designed through the years are:

#17 St. Mellion
#8 Summit @ Cordillera
#15 Pasadera
#6 Melrose
#13 Outlaw @ Desert Mountain  (under construction)
#15 Palmetto Bluffs  (under construction)
#8 Pinehurst National
#18 Glenmoor
#17 Apache @ Desert Mountain
#2 Chiracahua @ Desert Mountain
#17 Richland
#17 Hokulia

There are many more but these are a few that some may be familiar.