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cary lichtenstein

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 08:53:56 AM »
Yes, Highland Links is wonderful
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jed Peters

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2012, 01:03:21 PM »
I find it almost crazy that Jasper isn't listed as a great course.

I've played there many times, and it truly is one of the great courses I've ever played...and one that I would say is one of the most fun courses I've ever been on.

There really isn't too much bad about it....seriously a fantastic track in a fantastic setting.

Sean Leary

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2012, 01:05:25 PM »
I find it almost crazy that Jasper isn't listed as a great course.

I've played there many times, and it truly is one of the great courses I've ever played...and one that I would say is one of the most fun courses I've ever been on.

There really isn't too much bad about it....seriously a fantastic track in a fantastic setting.

I am in the minority that thinks Banff is better, but it is easy and fun....

Stewart Naugler

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2012, 02:54:13 PM »
Cabot Links!

Adam Clayman

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »
Robert Thompson writes another fabulous, informative piece on Cabot.

http://www.thestar.com/specialsections/2012golfguide/article/1154000--a-legend-in-the-making

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ronald Montesano

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2012, 09:32:00 AM »
I'm baffled by the proclamation of Cabot as great. Might it be? Yes, but not for us to decide/project at this point. Cabot will define its purpose (destination resort vs. championship course-don't laugh!)

This projection reminds me of the attention given by the USGA to that Wisconsin course, Erin Hills. We saw what happened with its original (loved by some, not by all) layout.

Living near the border, I know very good things about Cherry Hill and Lookout Point, have heard very good/great applied to the twin Devil's in Caledon, Ontario, and have heard great applied by PGA pros to Hamilton.

One thing I know: Niagara-Toronto has all the golf one could ever need in a lifetime. The more I learn, the less I knew and the more I want/need from that stretch!
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Adam Clayman

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2012, 05:07:12 PM »
I'm baffled by the proclamation of Cabot as great. Might it be? Yes, but not for us to decide/project at this point. Cabot will define its purpose (destination resort vs. championship course-don't laugh!)

This projection reminds me of the attention given by the USGA to that Wisconsin course, Erin Hills. We saw what happened with its original (loved by some, not by all) layout.

Living near the border, I know very good things about Cherry Hill and Lookout Point, have heard very good/great applied to the twin Devil's in Caledon, Ontario, and have heard great applied by PGA pros to Hamilton.

One thing I know: Niagara-Toronto has all the golf one could ever need in a lifetime. The more I learn, the less I knew and the more I want/need from that stretch!

You can rest your baffled self.

 All the "right' people were involved in it's concept, design and construction. You cannot say the same thing about that Wisconsin project.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ronald Montesano

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2012, 12:59:37 AM »
Are you sure, Adam? Whose "right" people?

Our society of this day (I'm 46, to clarify where I chronologically rest) is enchanted with proclamations of greatness, prior to the test of time. I think that folks who praise Cabot or any other course are simply feeding the beast.

In interviews, Mr. Keiser reveals how many times he looked for an "out" when it came to Cabot. He never found the defining one and BCD, et al., made a great pitch to keep him involved. His measured steps are ones that we might consider before christening a premature anointment.
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Frank M

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada? New
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2012, 03:40:48 AM »
Ronald, I would agree with you. Cabot Links hasn't even opened yet and everyone is quick to qualify it as one of the best in the world. Seems like typical media hype and good marketing/promotion tactics more than anything. I don't get how that assessment can be made without some sort of passing of time or an actual opening for that matter.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 08:59:50 PM by Frank M »

Ronald Montesano

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2012, 09:37:39 AM »
I can point folks to http://issuu.com/madavor/docs/fg-201202

Sorry to go all Pat Mucchi on you, but if you read the quote on Pp. 22-23 that begins with the blue-letter trigger "Rod Whitman filled me in on the story: He checked out the site in the dead of winter and then contacted you.You went up and checked it out. What did you think when you first saw it?" you will understand why I wrote what I did about Mr. Keiser's uncertainty.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 09:41:01 AM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Dan Herrmann

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2012, 09:45:24 AM »
I certainly think Cape Breton Highlands Links is a great course.  And Stanley Thompson is an underrated great architect.

Jeremy Rivando

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2012, 11:52:15 AM »
I feel that Highlands Links qualifies as a truly great golf course.  It has some of the most unique and outstanding golf holes in the world.  It suffers from a very remote location and a Federal Government that should not be in the golf business.

I remember talking with Ben Cowan-Dewar while on a tour of Cabot and I had been attempting the classic 18 hole match play between Highlands and St George's.  This was a day after playing 36 at Highlands and a month after attending the Canadian Open at St George's.  At the time I had St George's winning and Ben was laughing at me.  A year and half later I realized why Ben was laughing, when I attempted the matchup again it wasn't close, Highlands Links has so many great holes, I wasn't able to fully appreciate the course until it had really sunk in.  Holes like 4, 5, 7, 13, 15, 16 are on such great pieces of land and the architecture is fantastic.

If Ian Andrew is able to continue his restoration work the golf course will benefit immensely, a tourist spike should correlate with the opening of Cabot and I'd expect Highlands Links will make its way back into being a consensus Top 75.

Robert Thompson

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2012, 11:20:52 PM »
I missed this the first time around. I'd argue there are only a handful of courses in Canada that could be considered great, and yes, the new Cabot Links is among them.

St. George's is already recognized as being among the best in the world, as is Highlands Links, though the later's reputation for questionable conditioning had really hurt it over time. Yes, it has one of the great routings in the history of the game, but it is too wet, and has significant issues in overall administration that hurt it. It is still my favourite place to play in the country.

Beyond that is Hamilton, which is in dire need of a architect with a vision for Colt's work (please, dear God will someone at the club notice that Gil Hanse has that background, or that Tom Doak is in Michigan and take it out of the hands of Tom Clark), Sagebrush, which I think is tremendous and flawed at the same time, Banff and Jasper (both of which suffer from conditioning issues from time to time) and the National, which I think is simply too close to many other above-average American designs to really set itself apart.

Finally, there's the rarely seen Goodwood, which is a terrific course outside of Toronto that is exceptionally solid, but perhaps never elevates itself to the "great" level.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Matthew MacKay

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2012, 08:09:30 AM »
Rob, where do you think Toronto GC fits into this? I think it's absolutely unique to Canada (particularly from a maintenance/grassing perspective) and deserves to be in the conversation.

Bill_McBride

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2012, 09:51:53 AM »
Capilano!

Looking forward to Sagebrush, Marine Drive, Royal Colwood and Victoria Golf Club in June.

It was a super trip thanks to Judge Jenkins and Will MacEwen.  I could happily be a member of Victoria Golf Club the rest of my life. 

Robert Thompson

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2012, 12:47:03 PM »
Matt -- a really good course, and one of my faves, but not great.


Rob, where do you think Toronto GC fits into this? I think it's absolutely unique to Canada (particularly from a maintenance/grassing perspective) and deserves to be in the conversation.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Josh Stevens

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2012, 08:15:18 PM »
Is it perhaps simply that Canada has failed to come up with a particular style that is quintessentially seen as Canadian.  The UK has its heath and links,  Australia has its sand, the US has all sorts of thinks, but Canada is to an extent simply seen, in terms of golf, as being just that cold bit to the north of the US?

Also not the greatest climate surely - tricky to really create a hard core golfing culture when frozen half the year.


Ronald Montesano

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2012, 09:41:29 PM »
Josh, that would be due to the fact that all those frozen river courses that the puckers played growing up have the temerity to melt in the fair weather.

You are on to something, perhaps. My suspicion is that mountain courses, a la Banff and Jasper, could be the uniquely Canadian style. That would eliminate all of Ontario from consideration, though.
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)


Terry Lavin

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2012, 11:24:52 AM »
I'm sure there are great courses in Canada, but in the interest of international diplomacy, might I politely inquire as to whether we could poach a couple holes to fill out our Greatest Holes in Chicagoland list?  We have a couple spots that may be available... ;D
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mark Saltzman

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2012, 11:32:27 AM »
Judge, here's the best 17 holes in Ontario by hole number (haven't posted 18 yet): http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/09/the-best-18-holes-in-ontario.html

Terry Lavin

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2012, 11:47:24 AM »
Judge, here's the best 17 holes in Ontario by hole number (haven't posted 18 yet): http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/09/the-best-18-holes-in-ontario.html

Are any of these in neighboring provinces?   ;D
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ian Andrew

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2012, 11:49:56 AM »
In interviews, Mr. Keiser reveals how many times he looked for an "out" when it came to Cabot.

That had to do with season length and location, never the quality or the vision for the project.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Wayne_Kozun

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2012, 04:25:33 AM »
Also not the greatest climate surely - tricky to really create a hard core golfing culture when frozen half the year.
The weather in southern Ontario is not materially different than in areas like Chicago, Detroit, Rochester, NY or Boston.  The season is just a couple of weeks shorter at each end - my club will likely be closing for the season in a week or so.  But some guys still play on temp greens as long as there is no snow.

Canada actually has a very strong golfing culture - I think we have one of the highest golfer per capita ratios, much higher than the US.  And the history is longer than the US as I believe Royal Montreal is the oldest golf club (although not course) in North America.  And there are reports of Scottish soldiers from General Wolfe's army playing golf on the Plains of Abraham in Quebec City in 1760.

Matthew MacKay

Re: Are there any truly great golf courses in Canada?
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2012, 07:07:53 AM »
Using the ol' 10 to 1 ratio (USA - Canada) we should probably have a few more courses up here considered to be great.

I think some of it has to do with the fact that during the Golden Age of golf design Canada really only had 2 major cities (Toronto and Montreal) to provide the investment and interest needed to build and support top-notch courses. We're fortunate that the railway had an interest in developing world class golf/resort (ie. Banff).

Also, very few of the golden age architects travelled north...apart from a few Ross designs, Macan's work out west and the Colt designs at Hamilton and Toronto, Canada did not benefit from the talents of Mackenzie, Raynor, Flynn, etc, etc. We're fortunate to have had Thompson handle the load but we would have benefited from a little variety.

As guys like Doak and C+C were changing the paradigm through the late 90's and 00's, Carrick and McBroom were getting 90% of the work in Canada, some of it on pretty great land...I think we missed the boat.


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