Update on my trip to Apache Stronghold

[Doug Wright]

Thanks Matthew. Good to hear "something" about the course, however positive or negative.

My wife and I will be flying into Phoenix in mid-May and then driving into n.w. New Mexico and northern Arizona for a week and a half of golf. The plan is to overnight at "the resort" and get in an afternoon game after arrival and then a morning game before driving on to New Mexico. I hope to do a thorough photo tour of the course and will try to get some comments from Tom Doak on the creation of the course.

Jim, FYI Apache Stronghold is profiled in the "Courses by Country' section:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/apache-stronghold/

Interesting that the profile heading in the course index says "NLE". I suppose that's true vs. its orginal incarnation but the bones of the course are still very good.

[Matthew Petersen]

Thanks Matthew. Good to hear "something" about the course, however positive or negative.

My wife and I will be flying into Phoenix in mid-May and then driving into n.w. New Mexico and northern Arizona for a week and a half of golf. The plan is to overnight at "the resort" and get in an afternoon game after arrival and then a morning game before driving on to New Mexico. I hope to do a thorough photo tour of the course and will try to get some comments from Tom Doak on the creation of the course.

Jim, FYI Apache Stronghold is profiled in the "Courses by Country' section:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/apache-stronghold/

Interesting that the profile heading in the course index says "NLE". I suppose that's true vs. its orginal incarnation but the bones of the course are still very good.

I believe it had actually closed, at least for a brief time.

[Jim Johnson]

Yes, I believe it did close for a bit several years ago. Ran should remove the NLE designation though, at least for now. 
His course review is excellent, it is what got me interested in the course in the first place.

What I don't get is the bunkering. I am no golf course maintenance guru, so have no clue what is exactly involved in course maintenance, but can't keeping bunkers in relatively decent condition be, if not a daily job, perhaps a weekly one, where some semblance of playability can be maintained? i.e. encroaching grass/weeds kept out, sand kept in, etc.?

[Matthew Petersen]

A few pictures to give an idea of what it's like there.

The large fairway bunker on #8. No sand, some grass invading, the rest looking like desert hard pan ...



From behind the seventh green, looking back up toward the tee. Gives a good idea of the "scruffiness" of the course, but you can see that the most consistent grass is present there on the green.



The drivable sixth:



Looking from the fourth green back to the fairway. Here you can see some of the damage that's present on a few of the greens

[Matthew Petersen]

Yes, I believe it did close for a bit several years ago. Ran should remove the NLE designation though, at least for now. 
His course review is excellent, it is what got me interested in the course in the first place.

What I don't get is the bunkering. I am no golf course maintenance guru, so have no clue what is exactly involved in course maintenance, but can't keeping bunkers in relatively decent condition be, if not a daily job, perhaps a weekly one, where some semblance of playability can be maintained? i.e. encroaching grass/weeds kept out, sand kept in, etc.?

Jim, my guess is this is a desert issue. As you can see in the picture I posted above of the fairway bunker on #8, the bunkers have basically returned to desert. This seems pretty inevitable for any sandy area not carefully tended in a very dry, very dusty area. My understanding is that when the course was closed, and perhaps for some time prior to that, there was essentially no care being given to the course.

To this extent, I think a lot of the fairway bunkers actually work quite well in their current condition. You could play from them, but you'd certainly prefer to be in the fairway. The greenside bunkers seem like a different issue altogether. I didn't find one, but I took a look at a few and I can't imagine being able to play much of a shot from many of them. When you're on hardpan, I don't know how you get under the ball to get it up and over the lip ... and some of the greenside bunkers there do have steep lips on them.

[Joe Perches]

And here are Matthew's pictures:

The large fairway bunker on #8. No sand, some grass invading, the rest looking like desert hard pan ...



From behind the seventh green, looking back up toward the tee. Gives a good idea of the "scruffiness" of the course, but you can see that the most consistent grass is present there on the green.



The drivable sixth:



Looking from the fourth green back to the fairway. Here you can see some of the damage that's present on a few of the greens

[Matthew Petersen]

Thanks for the assist, Joe.

[Jim Johnson]

Thank you Matthew. And Joe. Pictures say so many things, they really are an important part of this forum.
I'm really enthralled with the topography of Apache Stronghold, at least from the pictures I've seen of it, on this website and others.

Question for those who have played Apache Stronghold. Re: the desert washes/barrancas/dry creekbeds that some of the holes traverse. Are they playable from down in there? Or are they truly hazards, and to be avoided? I recall a comment Slag Bandoon said about them, being fun to run down and through them, like being in the trenches in the Battle of the Bulge.

Thanks.

[Joe Perches]

I was just interested in seeing the pictures.  It looks better than I expected given all the negative comments about conditioning.  I've played worse.  Maybe one day I'll be out there and see (or maybe even play) it in person.

[Matthew Petersen]

Thank you Matthew. And Joe. Pictures say so many things, they really are an important part of this forum.
I'm really enthralled with the topography of Apache Stronghold, at least from the pictures I've seen of it, on this website and others.

Question for those who have played Apache Stronghold. Re: the desert washes/barrancas/dry creekbeds that some of the holes traverse. Are they playable from down in there? Or are they truly hazards, and to be avoided? I recall a comment Slag Bandoon said about them, being fun to run down and through them, like being in the trenches in the Battle of the Bulge.

Thanks.

It varies depending on which one. The wash on 2 and 4 would be very playable, the one on 16 very likely not. The thing that makes it an issue is the extent of vegetation growth in the wash.

The topography is really interesting. Obviously you can't miss the fact that #1 is a very long hole, but it's still a surprise to get to the second tee and suddenly feel how away from the world you are. I just love that feeling on the front nine (2-7 anyway). You just feel all by yourself.

The back nine is entirely different, with several holes in close proximity, which works in its own way but feels very different from the feeling on the front. The way the elevation changes are handled on the back is very interesting, as well.