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Adam Makepeace

Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #175 on: March 24, 2012, 04:37:10 PM »
6 + years of being a cabana boy and now you speak up about it? (the cabana "person" ;)  in the Tiger/Butch relationship wasn't Butch)


Jeff,

Do you think this had more to do with timing rather than personality? Butch was working with Tiger before he was a superstar. Hank started working with someone that was already the best player in the world.

I doubt too many teachers would be able to gain the upper hand in a relationship with an established ego like Tiger's.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #176 on: March 25, 2012, 07:25:17 PM »
...but apparently he needed the money now.

A guy's got to make a living.

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #177 on: March 25, 2012, 07:34:46 PM »
Carl,
I agree, but I am wondering how this helps him make a living in the future. He called the book "The Big Miss"  which ia apparently in reference to Tiger always having the potential to miss it off the tee. So, Haney is his teacher, he writes a book which may have future pros think twice before working with him, and the name of the book implies he has an inability to teach his star student how to hit it off the tee?
And I don't think Tiger leading the feld in driving this week helps either.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #178 on: March 25, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »
Carl,
I agree, but I am wondering how this helps him make a living in the future. He called the book "The Big Miss"  which ia apparently in reference to Tiger always having the potential to miss it off the tee. So, Haney is his teacher, he writes a book which may have future pros think twice before working with him, and the name of the book implies he has an inability to teach his star student how to hit it off the tee?
And I don't think Tiger leading the feld in driving this week helps either.

Keith, when you read one of my comments, the first question you have to answer for yourself is, "How [literally] serious is Carl being?"  It's a fault of mine - obfuscation.  Sometimes serious sarcasm, sometimes a little tweaking tongue-in-cheek, and sometimes straight-up serious.  In this case the answer should have been "serious sarcasm" - I guess it wasn't that obvious.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:07:03 PM by Carl Johnson »

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #179 on: March 25, 2012, 08:06:02 PM »
I get it, I was just trying to discuss.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #180 on: March 25, 2012, 08:14:25 PM »
I get it, I was just trying to discuss.

As well you should.  My straight up serious take is that you are right on the money.  I think that if Haney was looking out for his own self-interested well-being for the rest of his professional life, this was probably not a good move.  Still, I'd like to assume that he has thought it through, logically, recognized the +'s and -'s, and decided that the former outweighed the latter.  It would be interesting to hear Haney's honest take on this question.  In any case, time will tell.  Let's see if we can remember to revist this publishing event in five, ten and fifteen years from now.

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #181 on: March 25, 2012, 10:05:59 PM »
Regardless of how Haney really feels about Tiger, he's gotta be pleased that Tiger finally won again just before the official release of the book. It can only help sales. Not sure he feels the same way about the title of the book,  especially now that Tiger leads the tour in total driving this year.

I'm looking forward to reading it. I could care less about the "dirt". As a golf nut and as someone who has appreciated Tiger's excellence inside the ropes, I hope there is a lot of good info about the actual game and work that they did together.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #182 on: March 25, 2012, 10:34:57 PM »
To all those who take umbrage with Haney's audacity in writing this book,

If Eldrick ever decides to write a "tell all" book about his relationship with Butchy, Hanky, Stevie, Philly, Holly, Tiffany, Lexi, Tiffani, Seany, Bambi, Misty, Gypsy, etc., will you be equally as disgusted as you are now?

If he includes shirtless pictures of the first 4, I'll be more disgusted ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #183 on: March 25, 2012, 11:53:16 PM »
For what it is worth, Haney spent several years with his own driver yips.He would avoid playing or being seen hitting a driver.Maybe it is just a coincidence that his star player had the same problem.Or maybe the rolling of the forearms to keep the club on plane is a wilder way to play.Wasnt OMeara kind of streaky?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #184 on: March 26, 2012, 06:30:58 AM »
Apparently this book has done more for Tiger's game than 6 years of lessons from Hank :)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #185 on: March 26, 2012, 07:58:15 AM »
In light of this book and Tiger leading in total driving, I have one question.

1. Why would anybody ever pay a dime for anything Hank Haney has to offer, especially golf instruction?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #186 on: March 26, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »
Funny how people are either forgetting or discounting 1. That once upon a time Tiger chose Haney, and, 2. How dominant he was while working with him.


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #187 on: March 26, 2012, 09:13:30 AM »
Haney on ESPN now defending the book.  Mark Steinberg statement "this is not a golf book".
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #188 on: March 26, 2012, 09:14:29 AM »
Funny how people are either forgetting or discounting 1. That once upon a time Tiger chose Haney, and, 2. How dominant he was while working with him.



Dominant because of Haney, or dominant in spite of Haney?  He was already dominant when he chose Haney, and I know his winning percentages of both Tour events and majors went up.  But to me that appears to have been more about a giant in his prime than anything Haney did.  I haven't heard a single credible commentator (Miller, Chamblee, et al) contend that Haney did Tiger's swing any good, and most seem to agree that his swing became worse.  Not a little worse; a LOT worse.

Think of it this way; if you saw video of Tiger from 2000, 2007, and yesterday, how would you rank the three in terms of efficiency, balance, etc.?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #189 on: March 26, 2012, 09:16:43 AM »
Haney on ESPN now defending the book.  Mark Steinberg statement "this is not a golf book".

From the excerpts I've read, Steinberg is spot on.  Which is why I won't enrich Haney by buying his kiss-and-tell. 

What sludge.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #190 on: March 26, 2012, 09:49:19 AM »
To all those who take umbrage with Haney's audacity in writing this book,

If Eldrick ever decides to write a "tell all" book about his relationship with Butchy, Hanky, Stevie, Philly, Holly, Tiffany, Lexi, Tiffani, Seany, Bambi, Misty, Gypsy, etc., will you be equally as disgusted as you are now?

For the most part, yes. I'm not holding my breath expecting it to happen. If he mentions them in his own autobiography someday, that is completely different to me.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #191 on: March 26, 2012, 11:02:50 AM »
To all those who take umbrage with Haney's audacity in writing this book,

If Eldrick ever decides to write a "tell all" book about his relationship with Butchy, Hanky, Stevie, Philly, Holly, Tiffany, Lexi, Tiffani, Seany, Bambi, Misty, Gypsy, etc., will you be equally as disgusted as you are now?

For the most part, yes. I'm not holding my breath expecting it to happen. If he mentions them in his own autobiography someday, that is completely different to me.

I would add, as has been pointed out many times, that Stevie and Haney made lots of money off Tiger.  LOTS of money...
 
I see nothing in Tiger's past to indicate that he is going to "tell all", but now it would be just telling HIS side of the story after these two guys have tried to cash in on the situation.  I don't think that's comparable, and I think it would be completely understandable.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #192 on: March 26, 2012, 11:10:26 AM »
Still shocking to me that Tiger didn't have NDAs for his caddies or his teachers. Seems basic to me.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #193 on: March 26, 2012, 11:10:30 AM »
Many years ago, I wrote an article about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable.  
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 11:52:11 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Will MacEwen

Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #194 on: March 26, 2012, 11:11:38 AM »
Still shocking to me that Tiger didn't have NDAs for his caddies or his teachers. Seems basic to me.

He likely would have had to pay HH more thank 50k to get a NDA.  His legendary frugality may have failed him on this one.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #195 on: March 26, 2012, 11:38:21 AM »
Many years ago, I wrote an article one time about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable. 

Perfectly said, Terry.  Thanks.  I was born with no gene for ambition, but with two for loyalty.  I do NOT get this sort of behavior.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #196 on: March 26, 2012, 11:49:38 AM »
Many years ago, I wrote an article one time about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable. 

Perfectly said, Terry.  Thanks.  I was born with no gene for ambition, but with two for loyalty.  I do NOT get this sort of behavior.

Well said indeed.

AG, you got Haney's loyalty gene. He got your envy gene. You got the better of the deal.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #197 on: March 26, 2012, 12:09:30 PM »
Many years ago, I wrote an article one time about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable. 

Perfectly said, Terry.  Thanks.  I was born with no gene for ambition, but with two for loyalty.  I do NOT get this sort of behavior.

Terry and A.G.- Very poignant stuff and a dead center bullseye on both posts. Thanks.

Stuart Goldstein

Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #198 on: March 26, 2012, 12:15:30 PM »
Wonder if Hank's swith to Taylor Made from Nike had anything to do with this book.  The big swoosh couldn't have been to happy having their poster boy bashed.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #199 on: March 26, 2012, 01:01:24 PM »
Haney on ESPN now defending the book.  Mark Steinberg statement "this is not a golf book".

Jud

I don't get ESPN, but are you sure he's defending the book or perhaps promoting the book  ;D

Niall