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Rick Shefchik

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Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #125 on: March 22, 2012, 06:38:16 PM »
Any man who claims he fixed Charles Barkley's swing has no sense of shame.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #126 on: March 23, 2012, 11:28:30 AM »
An implied player-coach confidentiality code?  Such a thing exists according to teaching pro Rick Smith:

"I would rather be broke and not have a penny to my name before I violate the code of player-teacher confidentiality," Smith said. "In 27 years out here, I've never done that. I'm personally upset with Hank because he's broken and violated our code of ethics. If you have the opportunity and you're privileged to conversations, you will not and should not share anything from them with anyone. I don't care who it is."

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/3/22/is-there-an-implied-player-coach-confidentiality-code.html
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mike Hendren

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Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #127 on: March 23, 2012, 12:08:25 PM »
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on March 22, 2012, 01:12:04 PM
Rick Smith (from Golf.com):

"I would rather be broke and not have a penny to my name before I violate the code of player-teacher confidentiality. In 27 years out here, I've never done that. I'm personally upset with Hank because he's broken and violated our code of ethics. If you have the opportunity and you're privileged to conversations, you will not and should not share anything from them with anyone. I don't care who it is.

"For all the guys who have committed their lives to teaching, this should be very upsetting and I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way. What Hank did is against the rules."

Really?  You teach people how to hit a ball with a stick.  Defending some ethical code that doesn't exist is a vain attempt to ratchet up your self importance.  Like me, you just work for a living, Rick.
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #128 on: March 23, 2012, 12:16:00 PM »
Quote from: Michael_Hendren on March 23, 2012, 12:08:25 PM
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on March 22, 2012, 01:12:04 PM
Rick Smith (from Golf.com):

"I would rather be broke and not have a penny to my name before I violate the code of player-teacher confidentiality. In 27 years out here, I've never done that. I'm personally upset with Hank because he's broken and violated our code of ethics. If you have the opportunity and you're privileged to conversations, you will not and should not share anything from them with anyone. I don't care who it is.

"For all the guys who have committed their lives to teaching, this should be very upsetting and I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way. What Hank did is against the rules."

Really?  You teach people how to hit a ball with a stick.  Defending some ethical code that doesn't exist is a vain attempt to ratchet up your self importance.  Like me, you just work for a living, Rick.

And he doesn't have a "Photo Friday" either!
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #129 on: March 23, 2012, 12:37:55 PM »
Rick Smith seems to be a bit of a FIGJAM.

His BIO reads like he's the best thing since sliced bread, including his <wink, wink> "Signature design" which was actually Warren Henderson's work.  A few excerpts from his website:  http://www.ricksmith.com/pages/bio.html

Rick Smith has won dozens of awards and accolades for his skill as a golf course designer. The list includes his “Signature” course at Treetops Resort in Gaylord, Michigan, “Arcadia Bluffs” on Lake Michigan and “Wuskowhan Player’s Club in Mount Olive, Michigan, just to name a few.

A list of players he's worked with:

As Smith honed his skills he has assisted some of the most accomplished golfers in the world including Phil Mickelson, (currently the 4th ranked golfer in the world) Lee Janzen (two time U.S. Open champion) and PGA Tour winners Rocco Mediate, Jerry Kelly, and Matt Kuchar. He has also worked with PGA Tour pros Jack Nicklaus-golfer of the century, Gary Nicklaus, Billy Andrade, Greg Norman, Bill Glasson, David Duval, Vijay Singh, Ray Floyd, Paul Azinger and many others.

Perhaps Rick is the one with sour grapes as Tiger never picked to work with him.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 12:40:47 PM by Kalen Braley »
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #130 on: March 23, 2012, 12:51:51 PM »
Or maybe he really believes it's a betrayal of confidence, as many do.

It's a sad world when every celeb/wealthy person/whatever needs to get a non-disclosure agreement from everyone they meet. No wonder so many are pricks, with so many guiding them along the way.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #131 on: March 23, 2012, 01:30:47 PM »
The curious side of me notes:

Didn't Tiger cut loose Butch Harmon because Butch had a big mouth and talked outside Tiger's inner circle?  I recall that being reported.  Ironic.  I can't imagine there was ever a better golfer than Tiger circa 2000.  He should have never left Harmon. 

Didn't Mark O'Meara turn on Tiger to Hank Haney?  I wonder what Mark-O thinks of Haney's book.

The more rational side of me is ashamed to be posting on this gossipy thread. 
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Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #132 on: March 23, 2012, 01:47:54 PM »
George,

      I personally think that if Tiger hadn't already been a prick and treated people so poorly, then this book wouldn't have been written.  Its kinda the ole chicken/egg thing.

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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #133 on: March 23, 2012, 02:05:14 PM »
Quote from: Craig Edgmand on March 23, 2012, 01:47:54 PM
George,

      I personally think that if Tiger hadn't already been a prick and treated people so poorly, then this book wouldn't have been written.  Its kinda the ole chicken/egg thing.



You may be right on that. My only contrary thought is that sometimes you have to be incredibly selfish to drive yourself in such a manner, and then when you feel people are using you, you develop a protective skin that can be misinterpreted. I don't think many really know the real Tiger; maybe even he doesn't.

Look at it this way: how much a prick do you think people would think you are if you had everyone around you sign NDAs?
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #134 on: March 23, 2012, 02:24:13 PM »
As Shel put more eloquently, this ain't about how much of a prick Tiger was or wasn't to Hank.  It's about Hank's decision to sell out a former student and get paid to air dirty laundry.  It's not like he's sweating his next mortgage payment, so what could he possibly have to gain from this?  I'd think the potential hit to Hank's reputation, and let's face it rep is everything for a teaching pro, would more than offset whatever he's getting paid for this.  And by the way, as long as we're wallowing in the mud, Hank has a trophy wife as well, is this his first?:

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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #135 on: March 23, 2012, 02:52:34 PM »
Brian,

You wrote:

As distasteful as I find the idea of Haney completely betraying Woods' confidence, give the man credit where it's due. He's done well."

Reminds me of the missionaries to Hawaii in the 19th century, they came to do good, stayed and did well.

Bob
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Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #136 on: March 23, 2012, 03:54:02 PM »
"As Shel put more eloquently, this ain't about how much of a prick Tiger was or wasn't to Hank.  It's about Hank's decision to sell out a former student and get paid to air dirty laundry."

And I'm saying that if Tiger treated people with respect, then Hank maybe doesn't go that route.  I know its tough being #1 and being the richest athlete ever, I'm sure its lonely at the top.

The sad thing about this whole conversation is, the people who have actually read the book, say that Hank is way more complimentary about Tiger then these few snippets that have leaked from the publisher.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 04:00:24 PM by Craig Edgmand »
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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #137 on: March 23, 2012, 04:14:01 PM »
Quote from: Craig Edgmand on March 23, 2012, 03:54:02 PM
"As Shel put more eloquently, this ain't about how much of a prick Tiger was or wasn't to Hank.  It's about Hank's decision to sell out a former student and get paid to air dirty laundry."

And I'm saying that if Tiger treated people with respect, then Hank maybe doesn't go that route.  I know its tough being #1 and being the richest athlete ever, I'm sure its lonely at the top.

The sad thing about this whole conversation is, the people who have actually read the book, say that Hank is way more complimentary about Tiger then these few snippets that have leaked from the publisher.

Hank should have kept it on the DL. I think he partly wrote it for $ but mostly to make him self feel better about being a schlep/cabana boy.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 04:44:47 PM by Tim Martin »
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #138 on: March 23, 2012, 04:42:43 PM »
Quote from: David Cronan on March 23, 2012, 04:35:03 PM
This is sort of like watching people pick sides between Reggie Miller and Spike Lee......

 :)

I favor Reggie.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 05:24:24 PM by George Pazin »
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #139 on: March 23, 2012, 05:25:22 PM »
Don't look now, but Ty just took the lead at Bay Hill. Should be an interesting weekend.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2012, 05:35:20 PM »
Quote from: George Pazin on March 23, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Don't look now, but Ty just took the lead at Bay Hill. Should be an interesting weekend.

He just gave out popsicles for his threesome.
sent some guy  ;) to go get three more for the caddies.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 07:56:22 PM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2012, 05:45:57 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on March 23, 2012, 05:35:20 PM
Quote from: George Pazin on March 23, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Don't look now, but Ty just took the lead at Bay Hill. Should be an interesting weekend.

He just gave out popsicles for his threesome.
sent some guy  ;)to go three more for the caddies

Sean Foley is on his way right now to Chick-fil-A for the bosses dinner. "Hey Seano grab some extra ranch and tell em well done on the fries. Here`s $10 so get something for yourself too. Thanks big guy".
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 05:48:32 PM by Tim Martin »
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Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #142 on: March 23, 2012, 06:01:07 PM »
As usual, the wily lawyer, Shel, makes perfect sense. Though I must say I was not aware that the esteemed profession of golf swing coach had professional ethics. For Rick Smith to invoke them the way he does is a bit high-handed and pretentious. Unless I'm missing it, there's no such code of ethics embedded in some professional association (ASGSG) other than informal practice.

But then again, just in case, I do make my caddies agree on the first tee that everything to follow over the next few hours is off the record and on a confidential basis.

As for the book, I still think it makes for fascinating reading, reveals lot of detail that we would not otherwise have, and I'm glad Haney decided to write it, despite what will surely be the consequences for his teaching career vis a vis golf pros. Apparently he has decided enough is enough.
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John_Conley

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Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2012, 06:39:34 PM »
Quote from: Brad Klein on March 23, 2012, 06:01:07 PM
I do make my caddies agree on the first tee that everything to follow over the next few hours is off the record and on a confidential basis.

But not your playing partners?  I feel so small.  If it means I'll get your best stuff, I'll sign one gladly.
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Brent Hutto

Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #144 on: March 23, 2012, 06:48:10 PM »
You know, it's hard to imagine why a book of this type would need reviewing in the first place. Surely anyone buying it can trust that...

A) It dishes a lot of dirt about Tiger and

B) It makes everyone involved, including the author, come off smelling like a bum's nut sack

A book like this pretty much reviews itself, I'd say.
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #145 on: March 23, 2012, 06:59:46 PM »
Brent,

Some of my favorite reading over the years have been biographies, even some autos, a lot ghost written. It is quite amazing and amusing to say that the naughty bits were generally the most interesting.

Bob
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JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #146 on: March 23, 2012, 07:23:54 PM »
If everyone thinks the topic of Hank Haney's book is in poor taste, why do we have a seven-page thread devoted to said topic? 
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"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #147 on: March 23, 2012, 07:24:22 PM »
Without the 'naughty bits' this book doesn't get published. Americans love the naughty bits.  ;)
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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #148 on: March 23, 2012, 07:40:41 PM »
Brad,

Hank may have had enough of kowtowing to tour players, but the real issue is how does writing the book and not working with pros affect the enrollment and fees he can charge at the Haney Academy and his ability to help aspiring college players gain scholarships.  A friend's son is going there next summer.  Better tell the kid not to get too personal with the old man in case he becomes somebody someday.  If Hank will write this book, imagine what he'll say over a few cocktails....
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brent Hutto

Re: Review of Hank Haney's "The Big Miss"
« Reply #149 on: March 23, 2012, 07:58:13 PM »
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on March 23, 2012, 06:59:46 PM
Brent,

Some of my favorite reading over the years have been biographies, even some autos, a lot ghost written. It is quite amazing and amusing to say that the naughty bits were generally the most interesting.

Bob

Exactly, everyone goes straight to the nasty stuff. And we all knew the moment this book was announced that there would be naughty bits aplenty.

We like dirt. And we like dissing the folks who give us the dirt. It's a win-win situation!
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