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A_Clay_Man

Opening hole water hazards
« on: May 02, 2003, 07:00:14 AM »
Can anyone think of any opening holes that have water hazards either off the tee or on the approach?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2003, 07:05:53 AM »
The 1st at TOC has the Swilcan Burn.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2003, 07:10:17 AM »
How about #1 at Ridgewood CC, NJ (I think it's the West Course).  Arnold Palmer put 2 balls in the drink off the tee in the Sr. Open when held there 2 years ago.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Andy Hodson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2003, 07:19:55 AM »
The 1st at Key Biscayne (now Crandon Park; Sr. Tour stops there) has water right off the tee.

Its the only time I have seen someone have to go back to the golf shop for more balls before ever leaving the first tee. He arrived on the tee with 2 brand new sleeves...wasn't enough.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2003, 07:24:27 AM »
Ocean Forest has an awkward forced carry over wetlands on their short par 4 opening hole.  Its not the best way to start a round but its an easier shot then a similar forced carry on the par 5 10th.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci_Jr

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2003, 07:26:08 AM »
A Clayman,

Atlantic City CC
Center 9 at Ridgewood,
Preakness Hills
Cherry Hill
Boca Rio
Old Marsh
Medalist ?
Westhampton

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Robert Kimball

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2003, 07:29:49 AM »
Wild Dunes (Harbor).  Water ALL down the left, not good when you have to run from the car to the 1st tee . . .  :'(

p.s.  . . .WITH A HANGOVER  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Neil Regan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2003, 07:50:15 AM »
Machrihanish. But it's not a hazard, it's through the green.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Mike_Cirba

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2003, 07:52:12 AM »
Yale.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2003, 08:28:32 AM »
Mike- thanks for the reminder.  I guess I just have blinders on and just don't even see that hazard anymore  8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2003, 09:36:59 AM »
The first hole on the Sea Marsh course at Sea Pines Plantation on Hilton Head is a medium par 4 with a 100-yard carry from the white tees over a pond.

This was the first regulation golf course I ever played, at age ten, so that's the first shot I saw.  I couldn't make it over and had to play from the red tees.

We've built a couple of courses which require a water or marsh carry from the back tee at #1 (Atlantic City and Riverfront), but after my initial experience I am pretty careful not to put in any carry from the white tee.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2003, 11:13:25 AM »
TPC The Stadium Course
TPC The Valley Course

The Dunes

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
@EDI__ADI

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2003, 12:50:43 PM »
There's a new Nicklaus course here in Denver called Cherry Creek CC that opened last year. Opening tee shot is a 100 yard + forced carry over a lake. Why?  ??? A guy I played with there hit 3 in then just walked around the lake and dropped a ball. Nice way to start a round.

All The Best,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2003, 02:59:42 PM »
As long as i'm on a roll....

Black Mesa's first requires a drive over the irrigation lake.
That however isn't the real hazzard, as a sand ridge must be carried from the back tee to a semi hidden, but generously sized, landing area.
I birdied it last time out, it can't be too hard.
I don't have a good picture from the tee, as the lake area was used for staging during construction.  Here's the green site.


Now where's that skyline green thread....
(the 17th is a true skyline green)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Ken_Boltz

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2003, 07:09:46 AM »
The first at Butler National is a sweet par 4 with an elevated tee shot over one finger of the creek. Slight bend left, with an approach to a green set right behind Salt Creek. The green is set on sort of an odd angle that makes for some really interesting approach shots. A tough start to a tough course.  :o
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2003, 09:52:29 AM »
One though and one passage:

Thought — The first course I ever designed (Phantom Horse GC, Phoenix) had first tees set along a wonderful lagoon. Rock walls bordered the tees and there was only miminal carry from just the two back tees. A stream fed the lagoon. I say "had" as recent changes swapped directions of the first hole (now #18) and the charm of this opener is lost for good. Now #1 is a yawner par-4 with no ambiance.

Passage — One of my favorite TOC #1 and Swilcan Burn writings:

"In front of us stretches a vast plain, and unless we slice the ball outrageously on to the sea beach, no harm can befall us. At the same time we had much better hit a good shot, because the Swilcan Burn guards the green, and we want to carry it and get a four. It is an inglorious little stream enough: we could easily jump over it were we not afraid of looking foolish if we fell in, and yet it catches an amazing number of balls."
— Bernard Darwin, in The Golf Courses of the British Isles
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

A_Clay_Man

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2003, 12:25:27 PM »
The swilcan burm sounds versatile because it could come in play for both. The long knocker on the tee and the rest of us on the approach.

I was thinking more of Lateral water hazards when I initially posted and most of the described examples given seem to be carries rather than right or left.

Is it too demanding on the masses to start a course with lateral water hazards?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

tonyt

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2003, 03:24:41 PM »
A former big tournament resort course on Australia's Gold Coast is Palm Meadows. Water the entire length of the 1st hole on the left, made more menacing by a clump of bamboo (from 250-290 out) on the right which is automatic lost ball.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2003, 03:57:15 PM »
If one had to, I recommend the left rather than the right. We prepared a master remodeling plan for a course in Reno: Rosewood Lakes. It was literally built into a wetlands and then more wetlands created. EVERY hole has water along both edges with perhaps 2 exceptions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

JAHogan

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2003, 07:11:16 PM »
The Breakers in Palm Beach.  Just what your rusty swing needs in the middle of the winter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2003, 08:05:08 AM »
Forrest- I've golfed Rosewood lakes and that is one bitch of a course, for me.

No one has mentioned the first on the Meadow course at BWR.

The breakers remark is kind of where I'd hope this thread would go and that is, IMHO, opening holes (especially lateral water hazard) are tough tests of ones game before one is able to know what game, one has on that day.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

james soper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2003, 03:02:22 PM »
Secession's 1st comes to mind. I know Doak's not to fond of it, but it sure opens your eyes and gets your heart pumping.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2003, 04:39:39 PM »

Quote
Machrihanish. But it's not a hazard, it's through the green.

Sorry, but that is not a true statement. The beach at Machrihanish is a lateral water hazard, marked by red stakes.

Cheers,
Darren
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2003, 04:47:53 PM »
1st at North Berwick-West Course; water sure makes its presence known.

1st at Long Cove has a big pond down the entire right side

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Opening hole water hazards
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2003, 05:49:53 PM »
Looks like Pete has no problemo with the concept. I totally forgot about the river nines first. doi
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »