Ethics in the jungle ?

[Stuart Hallett]

I would like to hear GCA's thoughts concerning ethics as regards to fellow architects. Times are hard, and the law of the jungle seems to be rife. People are selling dreams whichever way they can, and the bandwagon is getting crowded.

Does an ethical approach to getting work still exist, or did it ever exist ?
Where do you draw the line ?
Do you push doors, even if a fellow GCA is firmly in place ?
Do you just sit tight and rely on skills and knowledge ?

When I worked in greenkeeping, there was always a golfer on-hand to explain my job to me. Now it seems that not only these people want to give advice about greenkeeping, construction and design, but they take it a step further and offer design services. It is logical when you think about it, giving orders on site is much more fun than getting your hands dirty digging a trench !?

And to finish, a little proverb that I heard once : « Culture is like jam, the less you have, the more you spread it ! »

Any thoughts ?

[Tom_Doak]

Stuart:

It is important to follow your own ethics -- and to understand that others will follow their own, even when your views on the subject do not agree.  I have seen a few things over the years that I thought were unethical, or at least where I concluded that the other party didn't care if they were ethical or not.  But, there's never been much that could be done.

I am well aware, too, that some fellow architects consider me unethical for ever having criticized their work in a public forum, even though I didn't do it with the intention or result of getting a job, or taking one from them.

Some of the architectural societies have their own code of ethics, but then again, so does our Congress, and look at how well it's kept them under control!     All it really means is that they have someone to gripe to when they think it's been abused.  To my knowledge, only one architect has ever been booted from the ASGCA for ethical violations.  They must have been pretty big ones!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Stuart,

I was always of the mind that "rules" for ethics (and for that matter, etiquette, civility, manners, etc) were in place for when times get tough, not when things are hunky dory.  I mean, who needs to be underhanded or stealing jobs when there are hundreds to choose from?  Who needs etiquette when everyone is getting along?

I left Chicago as a courtesy to my former employers, although I don't think its unethical to open up down the street.

I always ask if a gca is in place and won't go where there is already a contract.  In the rare case where a change is going to be made for reasons beyond my control, I have asked the Owner to dismiss the other architect, with reasons, etc. before I will talk to them.

Sometimes, I have sat too tight, hoping my skills and knowledge will show through.  Of course, going out and shaking hands, marketing, etc. is really the way to get more work, over any other method, as well as being the most ethical way.

Not sure there is really any line to draw.  Either it feels right in the gut, and you know it, or it isn't.  All the major societies have drawn the line long ago as what constitutes fair play among your competitors.  Of course, there were always borderline cases.

TD, while I wasn't there, I believe the "real reason" the archie in question got booted out was he was just too much of a pain in the can to deal with.  They all sort of agreed he didn't need to be there.....

[Greg Tallman]

Here's a small taste...

Sitting at dinner with our CEO, a well known designer, his associate and our PR guy.

Topic turns to future courses at our facility and the architect is kinda giving his version of a pitch that ends with "only a f-ing idiot would hire INSERT FAMOUS DESIGNER for that course."

Same designer, same topic, same dinner. Discussing a well respected design guy who is not the name on the shingle "Who the f--- is INSERT DESIGNER? What has he ever done?"

All before the salads arrive. Ahhhhh the memories.

[Bob_Huntley]

What could be worse than have an archtect renovate a course, on time on budget and offer some wonderful improvements including a staggeringly beautiful par three on the water?. Then make him the go to  guy in the future but when some thirteen years later the same course comes up for the chance to make it "a top one hundred on the multiple lists", he is omitted from the beauty contest. The choices and the utimate selection of an architect makes the manufacturing of sausages and political decisions look downright simple.

Bob

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bob, LOL.....no wait, I have been there.  Ouch.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jeff said it as well as anyone could, as he should given his stature within his profession. I think the ethics of professionals are governed by themselves relative to how they interact with clients and in competing situations etc. The business ethics regarding contractors, subs etc are a whole subject into themselves and governed by the contractual language of the parties involved and local state and federal regulations which apply therein.