"Pete Dye was at it again"

[Howard Riefs]

From the current Golfweek:  Very good article by Brad Klein on Dye's legacy.

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/15/dye-builds-legacy-getting-hands-dirty/


Of note is this excerpt about the influence of Scotland on Dye:


In 1963, the Dyes took a month-long tour of classic Scottish venues, a trip that changed their design outlook entirely. At Turnberry, they were impressed by the vastness of the holes. At Prestwick, they discovered railroad ties shoring up the bunkers and slopes so steep that Dye measured them with a surveyor’s transit. The long ride north to Royal Dornoch paid off when they discovered how the greens there allowed for ground entry along low, scooped-out terrain that made the putting surfaces appear to be raised. They also were impressed at how the North Sea was visible from almost every hole – an effect they were later to emulate at Kiawah Island’s Ocean Course, where they gave most holes a view of the Atlantic Ocean.

The biggest revelation, however, came at St. Andrews, where Dye played the 1963 British Amateur. He hated the course the first time around, thinking that the holes were indistinct. But by his seventh tour of the course – he made it to the third round of match play before losing to a professional roller skater from Glasgow – he was fascinated by the place.

He had begun to see the holes aerially in his mind, as if looking down on them, and he was drawn by how the lines of play and strategies were suggested not, as in the U.S., by towering trees that hemmed golfers in, but by modest vertical upsweeps of bunkers or dunes. He was intrigued by how so many ground features dead-ended into hollows and misled the eye. And he also saw how changes in vegetation texture would allow golfers to read the terrain – if they paid attention.

[Tony Ristola]

If you enjoy the article, you'll enjoy the book Bury Me in a Pot Bunker. It's filled with quotables.

[Matthew Rose]

he made it to the third round of match play before losing to a professional roller skater from Glasgow

Now that's funny.

[Mac Plumart]

Interesting to me that it says Dye did a lot of his own shaping, at least for awhile.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Hanse did (and maybe still does) a lot of his shaping.  I know Tom Doak talked about doing some shaping, especially at High Pointe.  Wasn't/isn't Urbina a world class shaper?  Hmmm...

[Anthony Gray]

  I like railroad ties. He used a spinoff at Teeth on the second hole and I think that is pure genius.

  Anthony

[Peter Pallotta]

It's interesting how the great links courses strike everyone differently, how they influence each person in a unique way and how each person then transmutes that influence in individualistic ways depending on their background, personality and ideals -- CB Macdonald in one way, Mackenzie in another, Dye is his way, Doak in his. I wonder if the young architect starting out today can look at those courses with the same open eyes and mind as did their predecessors.

Peter 

[JC Urbina]

Mac,

My first golf course  was the former TPC at Plum Creek.  Pete was not afraid to jump on a piece of equipment at Plum Creek.  I remember Pete telling me how he wanted the 16th green to look like, he stood and watched me give it a try and then told me to stop, he got on a tractor and shoved some dirt around and then told me to clean it up.  I was young and naive I thought every golf course architect built his own greens and bunkers.

I fondly remember Pete and his need to get down in the dirt and shape features with his hands like a clay model, shaping and contouring the dirt with his hands to show us what he wanted a green or bunker to look like. Lasting memories.

I have watched Bill Coore run the sand pro for hours on a green,  I looked at a lot of the greens and bunkers that Gil and Jim did at LACC, impressive craftsmanship.

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, Is that the Plum Creek in Castle Rock ? Didn't Dye Designs have their main office there?

Another connection,.. The golf club of Illinois. I was told that was the first course (maybe the last too) that the Dyes ever owned?
I recall a very nice blonde lady who came from the office in Castle Rock to help run the course in Algonquin. I want to remember her name...Betty?

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks Jim.

Is Pete Dye a throwback or a model of how things should be done?

Let's rewind a bit, if I may Howard.

Mackenzie?  Did he just draw up plans or did he get in the dirt?  I seem to remember Hunter being his construction guy, but I may be wrong?

Is there a correlation to getting in the dirt a having a great reputation among your peers?

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm not a fan of Pete Dye and really have never played one of his golf courses that I was blown away with.  (I haven't played Honors Course.)

I have always felt it odd that his best course was built in 1967's (The Golf Club) and then he morphed into this modern architect using massive amounts of earth moving and artifical features.  In his book, he talks at length about his love for Raynor and the classic courses but he turns around and builds TPC, PGA West and courses that have no architectural merit such as Carmel Valley Ranch, Dye Preserve among others.

I've met him but would love to know if he had it to do over, would he stay with his original design intent?

The Golf Club


Whistling Straits.

[JC Urbina]

Adam,

Yes the golf course is located in Castle Rock,  I am not sure who the lady your talking about is.

Perry Dye opened a office in Denver when he started taking the Dye name to the Pacific RIm. He was very successful in the middle 80s.
 Dye Designs did own / manage the golf course you were talking about, it was a company within the Dye Umbrella if I remember right.

Joel,
I thought the Golf Club was a really good on the ground golf course, TPC Sawgrass, Old Marsh and Blackwolf Run I really enjoyed.  La Quinta Mountain course another favorite.

Mac,

I think Pete Dye is the most influential designer of the modern age. 

[Matthew Rose]

I quite like Plum Creek. I've had some very good rounds there. It seems like these days they are always offering some specials to play there.... I've been able to get on it very cheaply. I haven't recently if only because I live on the wrong end of town now, and Castle Rock is a hike.

[Matthew Petersen]

I quite like Plum Creek. I've had some very good rounds there. It seems like these days they are always offering some specials to play there.... I've been able to get on it very cheaply. I haven't recently if only because I live on the wrong end of town now, and Castle Rock is a hike.

Plum Creek is where I started to figure out some stuff about Pete Dye and real cleverness in GCA.

Plum Creek, like so many of Dye's courses, looks intimidating as hell, with the big mounds, deep pot bunkers, railroad ties, and severe water hazards. But ... play within yourself and it's not a terribly difficult course, actually. I also shot several good rounds there and noted while doing so that people who were having a hard time were trying to hit shots they had no business hitting. Maybe when I first really started to learn about the ways a good GCA can deceive.