Bandon vs. the UK

[William_G]

The Charlotte-Eugene then rental car option looks very promising. I was not aware just how short the drive is, in my imagination Eugene was almost as long a drive from Bandon as Portland is. At more like 2-1/2 to 3 hours that is very practical, especially if I were to take a late-night-arrival flight, overnight in Eugene and make the drive early the next morning (easy to do when ones internal clock is still on east coast time).

The best way to go may be to leave in the morning from Charlotte, then get to Eugene early afternoon (one stop flight), play golf at Eugene CC, stay the night in Eugene, then drive to Bandon in the morning to catch your morning tee time...its 2.5 hours max to the resort

Or get in late, stay the night, then drive over in the am....

Returning thru Eugene you have similar options....

Sept/October are great on the coast and in Eugene

Love to help.

Thanks

[Carl Nichols]

I bet a direct flight from Charlotte to LHR costs about $700 more than a direct flight from Charlotte to Eugene.

[Brent Hutto]

I bet a direct flight from Charlotte to LHR costs about $700 more than a direct flight from Charlotte to Eugene.

I can do Delta from my home in Columbia, SC to Heathrow for $974 vs. CLT to Eugene for $580. United is about $50-$75 cheaper from Charlotte to Eugene.

There's a great direct flight from CLT to Gatwick that runs $1,062 in September. Delta from CLT-LHR is about the same price, for some reason that's a rare case where Charlotte is a more expensive departure point than Columbia (usually quite the opposite).

Columbia to Manchester is a bit more expensive, about $1,100 or a bit more. Manchester to Ganton is very similar time+distance as Eugene to Bandon.

The rental car cost comparison is roughly a wash except for the more expensive fuel in England (+$50 or so). Flight costs run about $400-$500 more for transatlantic, not quite $700 but still a significant difference. Everything else about the England trip is either much less expensive (if you're talking London and the south) or much, much less expensive (Manchester and the north). I don't have terrible jet lag from either a 3-hour change or a 5-hour change but it's a minor nuisance in either case.

The real bargain is if your wish for UK golf happens to be somewhere that's not among the 20 or so courses with prime-season-Bandon-like green fees. The Muirfields and Old Courses and Royal St. George's (Open rota venues) plus some of the premium clubs in the stockbroker have roughly double the green fees of fine courses like Ganton or Royal Cinque Ports. Even at $1.60 to the pound the courses which charge around 100 quid for a round or a day ticket remain relative "bargains" compared to Bandon, Pebble, Kohler, Kiawah and the like. Plus the age-old observation that you can't even easily access the equivalent private clubs in the USA (I'd put a club like Shinnecock or Olympic Club in the same quality class with Ganton, for instance).

But that's not to downplay the hassle factor of international travel. Passports, currency exchange, cell phone issues, people who talk funny and call you "Love" or "Dear" (I'm joking there, I actually love being called "Dear" by the occasional northern grocery clerk) and the sheer distance of travel make it a much more tiring and worrisome undertaking. And in today's world, frankly it's reassuring to know if worse comes to worst I could always (eventually) drive or walk home from Oregon if the planes aren't flying. But from my neck of the woods, for really affordable and convenient vacation travel I'd need to stick to the opposite half of the country and not play at one of the big-name resorts. Which in the end might be what I end up doing after all. I know some things can't be accounted for in dollars, unfortunately my bank balance is not one of those things.

[David_Tepper]

Brent -

The good news is neither is a bad choice. 

DT

[Mark Chaplin]

Anthony - that it maybe but is it the world's best golfing experience?

Brent - next time you are down our way www.numberonebandb.co.uk is $90+/- for a single!

[Brent Hutto]

Anthony - that it maybe but is it the world's best golfing experience?

Brent - next time you are down our way www.numberonebandb.co.uk is $90+/- for a single!

Yeah, I heard about that. Congratulations to your wife and yourself and great news for us overseas Deal golf addicts!

[Scott Warren]

It amazes me that in the search for an example of extortionate public golf green fees, anyone would use TOC at £130 (US$206) in high season.

Bandon has a lot of draws, but when I can play an extremely similar (listening to trusted sources who've been to both) quality and style of golf for a lot less money at Barnbougle, I find myself planning other things for my visits to the US.

[Brent Hutto]

My bad on mentioning the Old Course without checking. Going from memory I thought it was around 200 quid but that was more like 200 dollars.

[Scott Warren]

Brent,

I was referring to Kalen, who mentioned green fees like TOC's, highways and weather as prime reasons not to visit the UK. I hadn't seen you reference the TOC green fee.

[Carl Nichols]

Scott,
Kalen may have been thinking about the cost for a guaranteed tee time at TOC, which I had always understood to be much higher than £ 130.

[Brent Hutto]

As I understand it, never having visited, playing The Old Course is actually easier as a single. To book a foursome or such in advance you either have to do it yourself like a year out (and may not get the dates you want) or you buy them packaged through a reseller at substantial markup. That's one big advantage of a purely commercial venture like Bandon. Single, foursome, whatever you just call well ahead of time and book it very straightforwardly. More easily understood and used than a crypto-commercial system like The Old Course has with its selected tour packager(s).

For my part, the ideal visit to Bandon would be in a foursome of people I know well. My ideal visit to the Old Course would be solo. Who knows, I may eventually end up doing each of them the opposite way...which would be great as well!

[Sven Nilsen]

I guess I'm a little confused as to what is meant by "resort golf."  This phrase was used as if the Bandon model is somehow a bad thing.

Is there a misconception that Bandon is somehow a spa/golf/pool type of environment?  Does it have to do with exclusivity?  Are we simply talking about long rounds and full tee sheets?

[Sean_A]

I guess I'm a little confused as to what is meant by "resort golf."  This phrase was used as if the Bandon model is somehow a bad thing.

Is there a misconception that Bandon is somehow a spa/golf/pool type of environment?  Does it have to do with exclusivity?  Are we simply talking about long rounds and full tee sheets?

Sven

While not exactly bad, "resort" doesn't ring as ideal.  To me "resort" usually means expensive and crowded.  Sure, there are many examples where one or the other isn't the case, but I think its quite rare for neither to be the case - that is for a resort course worth traveling to see. 

Ciao 

[Chris Johnston]

Either option sound fun to me and both are worth the effort.

[Mark Chaplin]

Sven - you are unlikely to meet a guy whose been a member for 40 or 50 years and can tell you where Arnie played an approch from. There is unlikely to be silverware in the display cabinet that outdates the Titanic. "Annual" since '03 means 1903 or possibly 1803. The club special isn't a burger. There isn't a bag drop.

Whilst 98% of golfers at TOC pay a reasonable fee those who want to guarantee a round can pay a (massive) premium, I don't believe Bethpage gives that option. It's not a bad idea for those who want to ensure their round, it also keeps the cost down for the real locals!

Brent - thank you for the good wishes.

[Tim Martin]

Brent. I went in Low season and paid 100 dollars a night accommodation and 75 per round of golf plus replay was around 40 dollars - why not go in low season? Totally different value proposition and because it's so firm and fas, conditions won't be much different. Granted it will be colder.

Brian- Low season is the way I would like to do it as well. With those prices I can`t imagine there is a much better value for high quality golf and lodging. I am not bothered by the cold and certainly would have the right gear as I`m sure almost everyone that heads out there does. I am particularly  interested in your take as you can comment as someone who has done both. That said the U K experience is something I am also very keen on.

[Richard Choi]

I don't understand why anyone has to convince you to go to Bandon.

Bandon courses have been covered on this site probably more than any other courses. If you are not convinced that it is not worth visiting at this point, I doubt that anyone is going to change your mind.

Personally, I don't think you should go. The "resort" is already too popular for its own good. The green fees are so sky high that even though I live within driving distance, I have to think long and hard about visiting there. If anything, we need to encourage others not to come, so the prices can come down to something vaguely reasonable.

So, save your money, go to UK. Have a good time.

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony - that it maybe but is it the world's best golfing experience?

Brent - next time you are down our way www.numberonebandb.co.uk is $90+/- for a single!

  Well it's not Cruden Bay.

  Anthony

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven - you are unlikely to meet a guy whose been a member for 40 or 50 years and can tell you where Arnie played an approch from. There is unlikely to be silverware in the display cabinet that outdates the Titanic. "Annual" since '03 means 1903 or possibly 1803. The club special isn't a burger. There isn't a bag drop.

Mark:

To each his own I guess.  I could care less about the oldest member, the plaques in the fairway, the rusted tableware, the numbers on the logo or the complementary scones.  None of this has anything to do with the quality of the golf.  

There's room enough in the golf world for the club experience and the "its just about the golf" experience.  Fact of the matter, what you described as it exists over here probably comes with a waiting list, the equivalent of a middle-class annual salary as an initiation and the requirement that you can prove a certain genetic makeup.  

I'd venture that what you'd find at Bandon is a lot closer to the UK club experience than it is to the typical resort golf experience, not only in the type of courses you get to play but also in the general atmosphere.

Sven

[William_G]

I don't understand why anyone has to convince you to go to Bandon.

Bandon courses have been covered on this site probably more than any other courses. If you are not convinced that it is not worth visiting at this point, I doubt that anyone is going to change your mind.

Personally, I don't think you should go. The "resort" is already too popular for its own good. The green fees are so sky high that even though I live within driving distance, I have to think long and hard about visiting there. If anything, we need to encourage others not to come, so the prices can come down to something vaguely reasonable.

So, save your money, go to UK. Have a good time.

HAHAHAHA

[Sven Nilsen]

I guess I'm a little confused as to what is meant by "resort golf."  This phrase was used as if the Bandon model is somehow a bad thing.

Is there a misconception that Bandon is somehow a spa/golf/pool type of environment?  Does it have to do with exclusivity?  Are we simply talking about long rounds and full tee sheets?

Sven

While not exactly bad, "resort" doesn't ring as ideal.  To me "resort" usually means expensive and crowded.  Sure, there are many examples where one or the other isn't the case, but I think its quite rare for neither to be the case - that is for a resort course worth traveling to see. 

Ciao 

Sean:

I don't think either criteria is a valid criticism of Bandon.  In general, I'd say the higher the cost the less likely you are going to have to deal with any crowds.  Think Bethpage as the converse of this statement.

Sven

[Anthony Gray]

  Brent....it's no contest.

  Anthony

[Terry Lavin]

The "vs" does not belong. Mike Keiser wanted to build a sort of American facsimile of the great UK courses. A facsimile could never capture the culture, the history or the soul of the original. It might, however, develop a culture, history or soul of its own. Recognizable but wholly different at the same time. And that's okay even if it's not entirely original.

[Anthony Gray]

The "vs" does not belong. Mike Keiser wanted to build a sort of American facsimile of the great UK courses. A facsimile could never capture the culture, the history or the soul of the original. It might, however, develop a culture, history or soul of its own. Recognizable but wholly different at the same time. And that's okay even if it's not entirely original.

  You can't find those cliffs in the UK. Or the remoteness.

  Anthony

[Brent Hutto]

My wife actually chimed in on this discussion with the observation that, as in many things, the social context matters to how we perceive a thing as much as the thing itself.

A place having four courses and visited by tens of thousands of golfers each year is a very different context than one or two club courses existing in a local community for decades or sometimes even longer. You could have a course at Bandon and a private club course in some Scottish, English or Irish town that were virtually identical shot-for-shot, hole-for-hole, vista-for-vista and yet playing them would have a very different feel. I know the word "experience" is a cliche around here but the experience is literally different depending on the context.

And one is not superior to the other. But different enough it's no wonder than some people strongly prefer one to the other, even if the quality of the golf (shots, views, routing and so forth) is quite similar.

I guess we could each ask ourselves if we feel more favorably about one of the following scenarios than the other:

Scenario A: You play a really fine golf course in excellent condition one Thursday in September. Nobody much is around so you play by yourself and only encounter a couple of other two-ball groups all day. You can play as quickly or slowly as you like as there is not really anyone within several holes ahead of or behind you. Then you have lunch and linger by the window over a drink to enjoy views of the course with an occasional person or group playing but long periods where the course seems empty.

Scenario B: You play a really fine golf course in excellent condition one Thursday in September. The course is not fully booked but a fairly steady stream of two, three and four player groups tee off for a couple of hours in the morning. You get paired up with two guys who are on a golf vacation together and have a nicely paced round without having to either rush or wait. You shake hands with the other two guys then have lunch in the clubhouse watching the remaining morning groups come in and the afternoon groups starting to tee off.

I'd guess a lot of GCA'ers would enjoy either scenario equally much as long as the golf course was truly world-class. Others would find the solo round on a nearly deserted course pretty unexciting and much prefer having people to play with and see golfers enjoying the course. Still others might find the "whole course almost to yourself" round makes it far easier to really obsess over every little quirk or nuance of the architecture and the freedom to be alone for a couple hours as a "pure golf" type experience.

And yet others might find the "being allowed to sample someone else's course" feeling of visiting an upper-tier private club a bit offputting and would prefer more of a straight-forward and frankly democratic commercial transaction of playing at a resort (or near resort, whatever you call Bandon) to be less freighted with socioeconomic and cultural baggage. I can see a lot of variation in the sense of the conversation here on this topic.