[Aaron McMaster]

Mark,

I've got this 1940 aerial I'd like to post but being a newbie I can't figure out how to get it on here.  Got some advice?

[Niall Hay]

In a nutshell, Frank... yes
.  I also have an aerial from 1940 and it's quite different from the ones you have posted.  Significant bunker removal has been done, as with a lot of courses in the 60's and 70's way too many trees were planted in particular Norway Maples and five greens were rebuilt.  Whats interesting is that the greens you commented on the most are not original greens.

Art Hills renovated the bunkers in 1996, hence the grass faces.  That will be a major change coming late this summer through the fall.

Aaron, any luck with the aerial from 1940?

[Mark Saltzman]

1940






1964




2010

[Niall Hay]

Wow, that is quite an evolution from 1940 to 1964.

Love the bunkering between 4 and 6. Also the bunkering on the Par 3 # 7 is awesome. 

[Niall Hay]

A walk in the forest between 8 and 9?

[Mark Saltzman]

A walk in the forest between 8 and 9?

I was wondering that too.  9 was a mid-length par-4? Wonder what the impetus for the change was.

[Niall Hay]

What are the other key changes from 1940?

Were the nines really switched?

Which are the new vs. "original" greens?

[Aaron McMaster]

What are the other key changes from 1940?

Were the nines really switched?

Which are the new vs. "original" greens?

Not really sure what the reason for change was but the course was a par 69 in the 1940 aerial.  The 2, 9 and 14 holes were par 4's.  The nines were switched not sure when the year was but it seems that it occurred early on.  Greens 2, 4, 8, 12 and 15 are not original.  All five were rebuilt in the early to mid 60's.  In regard to the rebuilt greens when the Western Am was held at the club in 1962 all the players commented on what a unique green the 12th was, it typical country club fashion it was promptly rebuild and not in a positive way.

[Niall Hay]

How true to the original Alison design will the renovation be? Or how close is the 1940 aerial to the original design?

Much of the bunkering seems more interesting. Additional fairway bunkers look great.   

[Aaron McMaster]

How true to the original Alison design will the renovation be? Or how close is the 1940 aerial to the original design?

Much of the bunkering seems more interesting. Additional fairway bunkers look great.   

The course opened in 1927 so the bunkering you see in the 1940 aerial is intact.  The renovation will bring back a lot of the original bunkering but lengthened to be more suitable for todays game.  The course will also have more of an original flavor with significant tree removal opening up great vistas and a more rugged bunkering look, along with adding fescue roughs back to about 25 acres of the property.

I've heard comparison's to Kirland on here before and they are definitely still very much a parkland style golf course even after the redo.  Once the renovation is complete you will see a hybrid type course at OLCC with the property having a much more rustic and rugged feel to it.

[Niall Hay]

 "when the Western Am was held at the club in 1962"

Wow, the Western Am, any other "major" tournaments played at OLCC?

[Niall Hay]

How true to the original Alison design will the renovation be? Or how close is the 1940 aerial to the original design?

Much of the bunkering seems more interesting. Additional fairway bunkers look great.   

The course opened in 1927 so the bunkering you see in the 1940 aerial is intact.  The renovation will bring back a lot of the original bunkering but lengthened to be more suitable for todays game.  The course will also have more of an original flavor with significant tree removal opening up great vistas and a more rugged bunkering look, along with adding fescue roughs back to about 25 acres of the property.

I've heard comparison's to Kirland on here before and they are definitely still very much a parkland style golf course even after the redo.  Once the renovation is complete you will see a hybrid type course at OLCC with the property having a much more rustic and rugged feel to it.

So more like Indianwood (Old) in the Detroit area?

[Aaron McMaster]

How true to the original Alison design will the renovation be? Or how close is the 1940 aerial to the original design?

Much of the bunkering seems more interesting. Additional fairway bunkers look great.   

The course opened in 1927 so the bunkering you see in the 1940 aerial is intact.  The renovation will bring back a lot of the original bunkering but lengthened to be more suitable for todays game.  The course will also have more of an original flavor with significant tree removal opening up great vistas and a more rugged bunkering look, along with adding fescue roughs back to about 25 acres of the property.

I've heard comparison's to Kirland on here before and they are definitely still very much a parkland style golf course even after the redo.  Once the renovation is complete you will see a hybrid type course at OLCC with the property having a much more rustic and rugged feel to it.

So more like Indianwood (Old) in the Detroit area?

I don't believe there were anymore major events, just more local type stuff.  Indianwood would be pushing it.  Were not taking all the trees just enough to open views and add in native areas.  Like I said before more of a hybrid type course.  The wood is pure links stype which the exception of the firm and fast part.

[Niall Hay]

Mark, can we get a before and after thread?

[Bill Hyde]

I am bumping this with a video link to a before and after featuring Keith Foster's work here. Looks great:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1iQTRnlug
 

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, can we get a before and after thread?

Sounds good to me!

[Niall Hay]

I am bumping this with a video link to a before and after featuring Keith Foster's work here. Looks great:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1iQTRnlug
 

WOW!

[Niall Hay]

Mark, can we get a before and after thread?

Sounds good to me!

Mark, have you been out there at all recently?

[Niall Hay]

Hopefully these pics make the case for my belief this hole needs to be altered. It would be a great par 4 if the trees were removed on the right side (and the cart path, no doubt there due to the low lying land on this and #1 fairway.) Bunkers on the inside that tempted the better angle and plenty of room left to play it safe. This is like the 17th we removed at our place...a bad par 5 in its current form and a bad par 4 in its current form. Other than this hole, I love OLCC!!

Well Bill you seem to have read Foster's mind as what you suggested is basically what was done.  The hole is now a beast par 4. Great hole.

[Niall Hay]

I really like the potential of what I have seen of this Colt/Alsion course. Great use of the landforms, interesting holes.

However what for me as a European, used to European and GBI Colt courses, is shocking is to see how far the course has digressed from what its original design intentions were:

- Much narrower fairways than originally intended
- Massive tree overplanting, especuially in the doglegs, often destroying the original strategy of the holes
- It looks like a number of fairway bunkers in the doglegs have been replaced by trees
- The course has completely lost the Colt's sand faced bunker style
- All fairway bunkers lie in the rough with a rough collar between the fairway and the green (shows how much the fairways have been narrowed)
- Non continious fairways (areas of forced carry semi-rough areas), something Colt never used
- A total lack of short grass areas around the greens, especially in the grassy hollows
- Very narrow cut entrances to the green, almost eliminating the bump and run possibilities.

Is this the typical state of Colt/Alsion courses in North America?

"- The course has completely lost the Colt's sand faced bunker style" - this is now back at OLCC. The Alison's are back!

[Thomas Dai]

Another splendid photo tour. Always interesting and enjoyable.

Looking at the old overhead photos it appears that many, many years ago the fairways were cut right up to the edges of the bunkers, indeed right around the bunkers in many places, whereas now the bunkers are 'in the rough'. This seems to be the case these days at so many courses, and I wish it wasn't - let the ball roll into the bunkers.

All the best

[Sean_A]

1940






1964




2010

For those in the know, I am always interested when I see walk-over holes.  I haven't played Orchard Lake in over 30 years, so I can't recall, is there something special about the greensites for 5 & 6?  I was wondering why the course crosses over here. 

Ciao

[Brian Joines]

I am bumping this with a video link to a before and after featuring Keith Foster's work here. Looks great:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1iQTRnlug
 

WOW!

That link is dead now. I'd love to see the video if it's out there anywhere else.

[Niall Hay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xieu0bm3Gfg&feature=em-share_video_user

[Niall Hay]

I am bumping this with a video link to a before and after featuring Keith Foster's work here. Looks great:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1iQTRnlug
 

WOW!

That link is dead now. I'd love to see the video if it's out there anywhere else.

http://youtu.be/RWJuyVCxSys

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