Feature Interview with Jeffrey Stein

[Ran Morrissett]

 https://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview-with-jeffrey-stein/

My wife and I are big fans of The Crown on Netflix. We plowed through season three over Thanksgiving week. In one episode, Prince Philip, a former pilot, becomes enthralled by the Americans’ attempt to land a man on the moon. It makes him reflect on what his own legacy will be. No surprise, watching the show prompts similar thoughts to enter one’s own mind. For me, I couldn’t help but mull over whether GolfClubAtlas remains on track to make a difference.

For over twenty years, we have brought people together to share information on golf architecture in terms of what works and what doesn’t. A massive amount of information is contained within this URL, which can be accessed around the world. Ultimately, the goal is to help improve the sport’s playing fields in as economical a manner as possible. The sport will flourish ONLY if both aspects are met. We need both more thought-provoking architecture AND the sport needs to be affordable.

To that end, one of the things that I am most proud of is the Feature Interview section whereby we give young architects a platform to share their views. Within that group, a particular approach has become prevalent and that is the ‘design and build’ model. Simply put, you hire a guy and he does the work. You interface with him and him alone. Sure, he brings in folks to help with the in-the-dirt work but it’s his ideas that are implemented with him leading the charge in the field. Middle-men and associated expenses are cut out, as the design/build model is clean, simple and cost effective. Best yet, this breed has frequently worked on world class courses, often for the likes of Coore, Doak and Hanse. You get talent at a fraction of the cost. What’s not to like?!

Anyway, that’s the introduction to this month’s Feature Interview with Jeff Stein. Based in Westchester County, Jeff ticks all the boxes mentioned above. Underneath his logo are three simple but powerful words: Design. Build. Finish. That’s the big picture, succinctly told. Beyond that, the purpose of the Feature Interview is for you to get to know Jeff, what he offers and how he is unique. In his case, he is a product of his neighborhood, so no surprise to learn that he has glowing admiration for Devereux Emmet.

Since Jeff would be the guy doing the work, you need to rely on both his wealth of experience of working with golf's living minimalist masters and also to trust his ‘eye.’ How would you become comfortable with that aspect? One way is to visit Ohoopee Match Club. He worked there for Gil and during down time, he would take pictures of things that caught his attention. Now, his photographs adorn the clubhouse walls and cottages. Samples of his work are below and to me, it isn’t an overstatement to say he has the eye of an artist in regards to composition, scale, etc.

 

Jeff is well positioned for success as he lives in a great part of the world for restoration work. When the economy cools down - which it will - common sense and fiscal prudence will take center stage as clubs look to stretch their budget while enhancing their largest asset (i.e. its course). Design/Build guys like Jeff will cycle into greater demand. But, why wait for a downturn to act smartly?

Best,

 

[Thomas Dai]

Splendid stuff. Well done Ran and Jeffrey.
atb

[Steve Lapper]

 As one of the owner's who first-hand witnessed Jeff's strong work ethic, his abilities and it's quality, it's great to see him get some well-earned recognition.


  Unlike some others in his position, Jeff remains inquisitive and a very good listener. It's refreshing to witness a younger architect approach a job eagerly seeking a collaborative and open approach. Heck, he may even have learned something from Ran?? Questionable for sure, but you never know :')


 

[John Foley]

Awesome interview!!


I got around Hopson this summer and LOVED it!! Can't wait for the rest of the course to open up. Lots of kids there after school the day I was there so thinking this hot the mark exactly as needed.

[Tal Oz]

Wonderful read Ran!
I had the pleasure of running into Jeff at the Cal Club bar earlier this year and his love for all things Devereux Emmet and GCA in general was palpable.

[Tom_Doak]

A good indicator of the success of our internship program, is that Jeff is the EIGHTH* guy who has done a Feature Interview here, who got their first job in golf course construction and design working for Renaissance Golf.  I did not know where he has been working just lately, so it's good to catch up, even in this impersonal way. 


That internship program has always been my secret plan to dominate the business . . . and you all thought it was by posting here!


* The others are Gil Hanse, Mike DeVries, Brian Slawnik, George Waters, Kyle Franz, Jaeger Kovich, and Kyle Harris.




If you want to round out the field, you should definitely interview Angela Moser, Clyde Johnson, and Blake Conant at some point, as I believe they each have the same sort of staying power.  They just happen to be the ones I'm still keeping busy today, which is not a negative for their futures.


And actually, there are eight more former interns on top of those you haven't interviewed, who are still in the business, grinding away on projects for some architect or another.




It's too bad that they all have to compete against each other nowadays to stay busy . . . or compete with me! 

[Just kidding on the last bit.  I seem to be as busy as I want to be.

[Bernie Bell]

Very nice comments about Mark Chalfant and his Emmett book.

[Jeffrey Stein]

As one of the owner's who first-hand witnessed Jeff's strong work ethic, his abilities and it's quality, it's great to see him get some well-earned recognition. Unlike some others in his position, Jeff remains inquisitive and a very good listener. It's refreshing to witness a younger architect approach a job eagerly seeking a collaborative and open approach.

[size=78%]    [/size]

...It's too bad that they all have to compete against each other nowadays to stay busy . . . or compete with me! 

Steve, Thanks for the kind words and especially for recognizing my willingness to collaborate with you and others.

Tom, You are absolutely right to tout the success of your internship program, I wouldn't be in the business if it weren't for you and the access to practical knowledge which your program affords.  I also came to understand that there just wasn't a lot of room to get more serious machine time between the associates and the kind of talent which comes through the program year after year.  In fact, if your interns don't move on and make room for others, then perhaps Jaeger, Angela, Blake, and Clyde don't get their opportunity to shine with the Renaissance team and so on...

As Steve alluded, I actively seek collaboration with others, senior architects and their students alike.  Working in our little niche does not have to be zero-sum.  Perhaps its too idealistic but all the people you just mentioned could be collaborating with me or others, pooling work and realigning industry standard to a design and build model.  Can you imagine a Franz, Stein, Hancock, Moser, and Mahaffey build? I can.  There is so much talent that has come out of Tom's camp, we just need an owner who has the vision and the willingness to wrangle all the personalities!

[Peter Pallotta]

Continued success, Jeffrey.
Your last paragraph is very interesting -- maybe a model for the next generation (in many creative fields/endeavours, in the broadest sense of the world); but if so it will begin with a new level/kind of collaboration, and it will have to be -- it seems to me -- founded on a genuine willingness to put *the work* first and *credit* for the work second. I'm not making any 'value judgement' here: everyone is different, as are their needs at various stages in their careers; but just noting how relatively rare are the practitioners willing/able to do that, but also how potentially fruitful and satisfying that model might prove to be.
Peter       

[Jeffrey Stein]

Peter,


Frank Pont calls it "open source" design.  Frank and I worked together at the Broadstone Golf Club back in 2012 and we have been talking about collaborating on other stuff for years, including the restoration of Timber Point (a whole other story).  I think you will be seeing a very polished iteration of that open sourcing of ideas very soon with the new affiliation of CDPgolf.  Of course firms like Renaissance pretty much wrote the book on that, Tom is famous for the democratic consideration of all ideas from the lowliest intern to his most senior associate. 


The issue of taking/giving credit simply comes down to marketing and selling a story to golfers coming to play that very expensive golf course / resort experience.  If the golf is compelling and the price is right it won't matter who the designer is, people will play it.

[Joe Hancock]

Jeffrey is every bit the smart, articulate young man that comes through in this interview. He has worked hard to grow his knowledge and abilities on and off the course, and is getting opportunities to put it all to work. I am proud to have taught him a thing or two, and more importantly, to have learned a thing or two from him.


Good job, Jeff. You’re a good friend.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, You are absolutely right to tout the success of your internship program, I wouldn't be in the business if it weren't for you and the access to practical knowledge which your program affords.  I also came to understand that there just wasn't a lot of room to get more serious machine time between the associates and the kind of talent which comes through the program year after year.  In fact, if your interns don't move on and make room for others, then perhaps Jaeger, Angela, Blake, and Clyde don't get their opportunity to shine with the Renaissance team and so on...

Yes, I agree, and as you can appreciate, it's hard to get guys to move on in this work environment.  My associates could compete with me, but they have the utmost respect for one another, and they must like working on property with an ocean view   


That said, getting the chance to shape greens is just a matter of being in the right place at the right time, as we can't control the timing of when things actually get built.  My first shot at it for Pete Dye came the day after a crew party, when Mr. Dye and I were the only two people who showed up for work at 6:30 the next morning!  Our interns in Houston this summer had a horrible time, because most of the cool stuff had to happen before they got out of school in the spring.  Meanwhile, we had a young man working at St. Patrick's this fall, who got to work on nearly all of the machines, because we only had four people on site at any given time.  He didn't get to shape any greens yet, but he's only 19.  If one of those guys from Houston had held on a little longer, it might have been them.

[William_G]

well done Jeff Stein


as always pursue your passion

[Jeffrey Stein]

He has worked hard to grow his knowledge and abilities on and off the course, and is getting opportunities to put it all to work. I am proud to have taught him a thing or two, and more importantly, to have learned a thing or two from him.


Good job, Jeff. You’re a good friend.

Joe!  Really nice words and right back at you.  I feel like I left out a couple of things in the interview, namely listing you as another mentor.  For those who don't know, Joe has the rare combination of being a former golf course owner, superintendent and now more than 15 years building and shaping golf courses.  Joe's perspective on the golf business and depth of agronomic knowledge make his insights so valuable to any project.  If I had a hotdog for every shred of knowledge Joe has shared with me, I would be Kobayashi, hotdog eating champion


**Inside joke** working at Pelham they fed us hotdogs everyday for 60 days, I haven't touched one since

[Jaeger Kovich]

I’ve known Jeff as long as anyone in the golf biz. We met out in Bandon winter 2008/2009. He was already an RGD intern and I was applying. I think the next time I saw Jeff was in Nebraska in 2012, which is when he affectionately became know as “Jungle Jeff“. Since then we have been Caveman Partners and housemates a few years after that in Pinehurst. (Not too shabby for 2 kids from NYC) It is always entertaining having Jeff around... Just wish his awful Staten Island accent came out more in his interview!


Nice interview Jeff, see around a job site somewhere soon I’m sure.

[Jeffrey Stein]

Jeager,


As a fellow rude New Yorker, I'm tempted to take the bait, but I'll keep it polite.  Thanks for reading, I'll be looking forward to working together again as well.

[mark chalfant]

Ran and Jeff,
Thank you for this superb and illuminating interview. Jeff  posesses a keen intellect, is a tireless worker/ground artist, and a pleasure to discuss architecture with. It is neat to hear that Jeff  had an appreciation of Devereux Emmet's mastery in the formative years at Bedford. He also touches on Emmet's originality by noting Devereux's exceptional routing skill whether it unfolds from quiet land or from  rugged terrain.


Both Emmet and Marion Hollins spoke fervently about avoiding monotony (via templates) in the progression of golf holes. I have been fortunate to study Jeff's restoration work at Rockville Links and his shaping at Dismal River Red (on Tom's RGD team) .  I look forward to visiting many more!

[Michael Graham]

A really enjoyable read. I had the fortune to bump into Jeff in the Cal Club bar back in May. I got chatting to the gentleman next to me and assuming him to be a member told him how much I’d enjoyed my first visit to the club and how wonderful the course was. Jeff explained who he was and what work he was doing for the club. We had a fun conversation about all things golf and, amongst other things how the courses at Bandon (where we had just spent nine nights) compared to the links courses in Scotland. Unfortunately we had dinner plans so my brother and I couldn’t join Jeff for an impromptu nine holes before we left. Hopefully next time!

[Jeffrey Stein]

Both Emmet and Marion Hollins spoke fervently about avoiding monotony (via templates) in the progression of golf holes. I have been fortunate to study Jeff's restoration work at Rockville Links and his shaping at Dismal River Red (on Tom's RGD team) .  I look forward to visiting many more!

Mark, 

Jim Urbina has lead the restoration process at Rockville Links over the last several years and the golf course is really looking good and playing great!  Lots of credit is also due to Luke Knustson, the golf course Superintendent, who has done a phenomenal job healing-in all the new fescue areas where trees once stood.  I plan to start a thread about Rockville Links soon and I look forward to your contributions in the discussion.


Michael,


That was a fun conversation we had at the Cal Club.  They have got one of the best bar's in the golf world and an even better golf course!  I'm glad to be a small part of your West coast journey.  It was great to meet you and stay in touch!

[Mike Sweeney]

I plan to start a thread about Rockville Links soon and I look forward to your contributions in the discussion.

Jeffrey,


Please do. I have played it twice in outings and it is amazing that you never hear about it. Very fun course.

[JC Urbina]

Ran,

I really enjoyed your interview with Jeff Stein,  I have watched Jeff mature into one of the best shapers / consultants the business has to offer.  From the very first days at Old Mac to his recent work at Rockville Links Jeff has come a long way and in my opinion the right way into the golf design business.   

Many may not know this but Jeff started from the ground up, really!  He would pick sticks and rake rocks until dark at Old Mac and even when the crew went home after a long days work I would see Jeff walking around the construction site late into the evening. I would spend the late afternoons prepping for the next day or talking with Ken Nice the resort agronomist about the next days or weeks activities and there was Jeff trying to absorb as much as he could design wise. It's hard to take in the  design side of the project when your raking or building the riveted bunkers or many of the other tasks that a golf course construction site needs, but he asked one day what he could do to learn more about the design, I said stay late ask questions and don't be afraid to just walk around and look how the land was transforming into a golf course with his own two eyes. It's the small things that make golf courses really fun to play and Jeff was beginning to understand that. 

Years later Jeff would continue to do on site shaping work for me, from West coast to East. Jeff was always willing to learn, doing drainage work, running a small crew or whatever we asked of him.  Always learning, always willing to stay late, always willing to ask the right questions and sometimes having to make a decision and learning from his decisions on his own while I was gone.

We recently finished Rockville links just this past Nov, a golf course that has so many small details that most people would glare over them.  But that's what made Rockville Links so fun to be a part of.  I took the job while consulting at its neighbor just north,  Garden City Golf Club because of the small nuances that Emmett designs offer.   It has all of the quirky design elements that have long been forgotten  in this modern world of design.  Jeff was willing to take his time to recapture these elements with his excavator, sometimes even jumping out to hand rake in that last little touch.  You see, if Jeff wasn't willing to learn from the ground up he wouldn't have understood that the RAKE was the last detail that these designs need.  George Waters, Joe Hancock, Tony Russel, Riley Johns and of course the Golf Course superintendent  Luke Knudson all contributing to the coolness of Rockville Links. It starts with the shaping, the recapturing of the small detail work that Luke then presents in the way he mows and maintains the turf!

They all knew the Value of the Details,  you can't forget them,  that's what separates these Golden Age designs from the smoothed over, polished golf course designs of the new age. Jeff understand them and that why I like having Jeff on site, he knows to go back and look over the work he has done, checking from all angles that it looks right, feels right and plays right.

I know Jeff will exceed any clubs expectations because he understands the Value of a hard days work and he has learned from some of the best in the last few years, Gil, Bill and Ben and yes even Joe Hancock because Jeff was willing to watch and absorb all they had to offer.   He reads books on Golf Design, he walks and he plays the best golf courses that the game has to offer  and values each of them equally because he knows they lay the foundation for his work.   

Jeff is that -  NY - kind of guy.

[herrstein]

Nicely done, Ran and Jeff. Since Jeff has completed Malcolm Gladwell's hourly requirement I am not surprised to hear that his determination and hard work are paying off.
The interview makes me think we might be related!
I hope Jeff will follow through on his threat to come back to Chattanooga for an architectural research mission: not only Black Creek, but Lookout Mountain, Sweetens Cove, Sewanee, and The Honors Course, among others. Also, Chattanooga's Brainerd Golf Course is an old Ross for which we have the plans.....

[Jeffrey Stein]

Jim,

It is so gratifying to be recognized like this.  You are a great teacher and one of the best practitioners in the art of golf design.  I have always trusted your word and admired the wealth of knowledge accumulated from a career working with people like Pete Dye, Tom Doak, Mike Keiser, and countless clubs of historical significance from Coast to Coast.  Whether I'm shoveling, raking, shaping bunkers or greens, our early conversations at Old Macdonald made all the difference in how I learned the craft.  Your emphasis on the details sticks with me to this day.  I'm lucky to consider you a mentor and I hope you continue to pass your knowledge and expertise to many more eager students of the craft.

Reading your words reminds me once more how I started this journey in golf design.  While there has been plenty of support from my family, they also continually remind where I've come from, as a rock picker and glorified ditch digger.  I've got no argument but I like to remind them, at least, I've tried to be the best damn ditch digger on this side of the Hudson River!   

[Jeffrey Stein]

The interview makes me think we might be related!

Doug,


We are going to get to the bottom of this!  Coincidentally, there is another Jeffrey Stein, a golf contractor based in North Carolina.  I've never spoken to him but that might be something if we got a restored Ross at Brainerd with Stein, Stein, & Stein !


I've been to Chattanooga once before, but only saw Sewanee, Sweetens, and Lookout.  Clearly there is more research to do and my interest in coming back to TN is no threat at all, consider it a promise this Spring!

[Sean_A]

Ran & Jeff

The interview and generated comments above were a pleasure to read. The thoughtful questions revealed penetrating answers. I would like to read a follow up interview? Thanks for the effort on both sides.

Merry Christmas