The Team of Gil Hanse and Donald Trump

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

I am really interested to see how this pairing works at Doral. I don't see Hanse acquiescing to Trump's every demand. Here is my take on the partnership.

Anthony

http://anthonypioppi.com/golf/golf/personalities/460/the-intruiging-team-of-gil-hanse-and-donald-trump

[Rich Goodale]

From my two hour walk around Trump's place in Scotland back in November, I'd say that The Donald has a much more sophisticarted understanding of GCA than most people on this site give him credit for.  Of course Doral is a very different place with a long history and virtually no natural land forms.  Quite frankly I think it will be hard for both Trump and Hanse to deal with the effective tabula rasa that is Doral.  Does Hanse have any experience in dealing with flat land and a lot of artificial water?  I know he did a cool waterfall at Applebrook, but will that be enough for The Donald on his home ground?

PS--"sophisticarted" is an honest tyop, but I thought I'd leave it in for its irony potential......

[Jud_T]

Perhaps Donald will tread a little more carefully now that Gil's name has been thrust into the headlines via the Olympics.  Might be the best thing to happen to both parties as far as Doral is concerned.

[Michael Moore]

Anthony -

You indicate that "Tom Doak and Jack Nicklaus were forced into an architecture partnership by the developer of Sebonack Golf Club". Can you elaborate on that nugget? Thanks.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tony,

With all due respect, there's a lot of presumption in your blog post, isn't there? Please let me know if I'm wrong; 'cause it is interesting.

And, part of any golf architect's duty is to educate clients about golf and course architecture when required. I know Gil's very good at that part of the job.

Who really knows what Trump's like behind that persona? Or, maybe it's not a persona. I don't know. Do you?

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Jeff:

I have plenty of faith that Gil will do what he can to educate Trump I just don't see Trump listening.

I've talked to a number of people who have worked with Trump inside and outside the golf world and what you see on television is the real him as far as his personality. The two aspects of him that is different than the perception of most is how many times Trump has failed in his business endeavors and how much his father has played a role in Trump's career. I can't remember who it was that wrote, "Trump pulled himself up by his father's real estate portfolio."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/7227-donald-trump-the-art-of-bankruptcy

Anthony

[Dean Stokes]

I believe Gil Hanse is going to be interviewed on "The Morning Drive" tomorrow on the golf channel....or at least thats what they said this morning.

[Peter Pallotta]

Rich - I'd be interested if you had a moment: in your mind, what does a "sophisticated understanding of GCA" entail? What does the phrase describe? What elements comprise said sophistication (in Trump's case in particualr, but in general as well)?

Thanks
Peter

*tyop corrected to avoid irony or misunderstanding

[Rick Shefchik]

If last night's "Apprentice" is any indication (yes, I watch it), it can be impossible to change Trump's mind once he's seized on an idea he likes.

For those who had the good taste to be watching something else last night: Buick sponsored the weekly challenge; Trump assumed the men's team would name Michael Andretti the project manager, because, you know, he drives cars for a living. Instead, Andretti and the other men thought car-nut Adam Carolla would make a better front man for the task.

Trump was surprised -- so Ivanka and Don Jr., were surprised, too. The three Trumps were like a dog with a bone, and they weren't going to let go of the idea that Andretti should have been the project manager, even though Andretti is not charismatic, isn't proficient at public speaking, and doesn't really know any more about Buicks than Adam Carolla, who did a great job running the task and representing the Buick Verano.

Trump claimed the Buick execs preferred the women's team, although the men's presentations appeared, at worst, even, if not clearly superior. In the board room, the first words out of Trump's mouth was, "Why didn't Michael Andretti lead the task?" The spectacularly subservient Ivanka and Don Jr. beat on the same point for the rest of the show -- despite the men's team insisting that Carolla made a much better project manager than Andretti would have, and that Lou "Why not paint me green and let me play The Hulk" Ferigno should be fired. Finally, The Donald did what you knew he was going to do two hours earlier: He fired Michael Andretti, and canned Carolla for good measure.

"You did the right thing," Ivanka told him afterwards, as she always does. "It was a no-brainer," Don Jr. pitched in.

I wouldn't expect Gil Hanse to change Trump's mind about anything.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Interesting article, Tony. I've heard about most of that before.

I agree, it will be interesting to see what transpires at Doral - I guess I just have a feeling, knowing Gil, that it will be something very good.

[Jud_T]

Gil was on XM radio yesterday morning talking about having Jim at Doral and going back and forth for 3-4 days at a clip as it's "only an 8 hour flight"...love to have his frequent flier mileage account... 

[Rich Goodale]

Rich - I'd be interested if you had a moment: in your mind, what does a "sophisticated understanding of GCA" entail? What does the phrase describe? What elements comprise said sophistication (in Trump's case in particualr, but in general as well)?

Thanks
Peter

*tyop corrected to avoid irony or misunderstanding

Hi Peter

A "SUOG" entails, most importantly, the building of a potentially great colf course.  It also entails restraint, in a spectacular landscape where 100 different courses could have been built, most of which would have been more obtrusive to the environment than the one that Hawtree built under Trump's overall direction.  It also entails width and flow from tee to green to tee to green...... and greens which sit in rather than being carved out of the natural dunescape.  And no waterfalls, yet......

Rich

[DMoriarty]

From my two hour walk around Trump's place in Scotland back in November, I'd say that The Donald has a much more sophisticarted understanding of GCA than most people on this site give him credit for.  Of course Doral is a very different place with a long history and virtually no natural land forms.  Quite frankly I think it will be hard for both Trump and Hanse to deal with the effective tabula rasa that is Doral.  Does Hanse have any experience in dealing with flat land and a lot of artificial water?  I know he did a cool waterfall at Applebrook, but will that be enough for The Donald on his home ground?

PS--"sophisticarted" is an honest tyop, but I thought I'd leave it in for its irony potential......

Never been there but I think TPC Boston has some artificial water, and is pretty flat.

[David Kelly]

Of course Doral is a very different place with a long history and virtually no natural land forms.  Quite frankly I think it will be hard for both Trump and Hanse to deal with the effective tabula rasa that is Doral.  Does Hanse have any experience in dealing with flat land and a lot of artificial water?  

Hanse's winning Rio bid includes 4 or 5 man made lakes and is on a pretty flat, featureless piece of property.

[jeffwarne]

 Does Hanse have any experience in dealing with flat land and a lot of artificial water?  

Considering that Doral and that entire area of Miami was dredged up from the everglades(and was entirely underwater in the rainy season), wouldn't it be the land that would be "artificial"?

[Rich Goodale]

Tooshay, Jeff.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

First I hope Gil is getting enough of his fee up front to cover all expenses. Second I still feel sorry for him for having to deal with Trump as a client. 3rd, This will not be an easy course to make more than just pretty good. The client may have higher expectations which cannot or likely not be met. That said many a great architect has projects that are not that good or which he is pleased with.

[Brad Klein]

If Trump were really that big a golf klutz he never would have hired Hanse -- or before that, Martin Hawtree.

I think it's easy to mistake his public demeanor -- he makes a living playing a caricature of himself. He's not dumb, he know how to work the media, and he surrounds himself with really bright people and he has an amazingly organized and focused mind when he chooses to deploy it. Hanse is now one of those bright guys on his team, but he's not a salaried employee and doesn't need Trump for anything. Thanks to Rio and a growing international portfolio he can always walk away whereas Trump now needs Hanse for credibility, otherwise he loses the cachet of a PGA Tour event and he would forever lose favor with the USGA.

Hanse has already talked Trump out of of one wild water feature for Doral's par-3 15th hole. And if you saw those pictures of the two of them out there, Trump was doing all the talking and while Hanse appeared to be listening he wasn't saying much himself. The most valuable skill in golf -- ask any superintendent confronted by a member -- is pretending to listen.

By the way, small point. Jim Wagner isn't moving to Brazil; he's staying stateside.

Trump and Hanse; sure it's an uneasy alliance. But Trump already hired Hanse to do a project in Dominican Republic that fell through only because of economic reasons. They each understand each other well, and Trump knows when he needs help. With Apprentice he pulled himself out of near-bankruptcy by parodying himself. This time with Doral, he's sitting on a gold mine, with The Blue Monster only part of the prize but the one he needs to get right in terms of its public exposure. The PGA Tour won't let him go too far. Nor will Gil.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think Brad and Rich are on target.

I think most others don't have a clue about Donald Trump and how smart and practical he is.

[Howard Riefs]

Brad,

What becomes of the White Course since Trump didn't purchase it as part of the transaction? Is it still being marketed for development?

[Michael George]

By everyone account that I have read, Trump's focus has been to obtain a pga tour or usga event at a Trump course.  I doubt that he would do anything to disturb the pga tour in this renovation.   Maybe, unlike other projects, Gil Hanse may have some support with the tour's involvement - so long as he keeps the tour with him.

[DMoriarty]

First I hope Gil is getting enough of his fee up front to cover all expenses. Second I still feel sorry for him for having to deal with Trump as a client. 3rd, This will not be an easy course to make more than just pretty good. The client may have higher expectations which cannot or likely not be met. That said many a great architect has projects that are not that good or which he is pleased with.

If the place is that bad perhaps it will be a no lose situation for Gil. Again I am thinking of the before/after viewpoints on TPC Boston.

[jeffwarne]

In light of the multiple threads involving both men(as well as the one involving ethics), one does wonder how much soul searching (and/or research) Hanse would need to do before agreeing to employment with Trump.
Not forming any judgements as we all know there are multiple sides to every story, but there is no doubt working for Trump is a step into the limelight and opens one up to far greater scrutiny(both good and bad) by associating themselves with such a public figure.

[Sean_A]

Anyone that thinks Trump is a dufus isn't thinking straight.  Who else could have played the media and Scottish government so well as to get the permission he did for the Scottish project?  I would like to see that list!

Ciao

[Tim Pitner]

Sean,

I don't think many suppose Trump is a dufus--an obnoxious boor is usually the complaint.