[Mike Benham]

There is an article at the NCGA website that puts the news in perspective, and if the primary reason is to improve the aging infrastructure and increase quality of play and number of days to play, then that's great.  But this is still 2-3 years away from being completed.

Poppy Hills Renovation



Poppy Hills Renovation

Renovation FAQ

The Northern California Golf Association has begun the process to obtain permits for a complete golf course and clubhouse renovation at its home facility, Poppy Hills in Pebble Beach.

At a recent meeting, the NCGA Board of Directors approved the multi-year, multi-step process to:

    * Redesign and lessen doglegs to help the course unfold more naturally
    * Replace and redesign all putting greens
    * Sandcap fairways to greatly improve drainage
    * Replace irrigation system to better manage water usage
    * Renovate the clubhouse including restaurant and restrooms

A driving force behind the renovation of the NCGA members’ course is the conservation of water. The 24-year-old course already has an excellent environmental track record through its 100% utilization of recycled water for irrigation, but the overhaul further addresses water consumption by reducing irrigated areas of turf.

It is anticipated that it will take 12-24 months to complete permitting for the work. The project will proceed with the Robert Trent Jones Jr. Group once the permit is obtained and given a favorable economic environment.

“We are excited about the prospect of improving Poppy Hills,” says NCGA/Poppy Holding CEO Lyn Nelson. “We take pride in our golf course and feel this is a wonderful opportunity to enhance the layout and playing conditions. Providing an unmatched golf experience and value for NCGA members will always be a top priority for the Association and this project seeks to enhance that experience and make our members’ course one of the finest in the nation.”

Open to the general public, Poppy Hills offers green fees as low as $55 for NCGA members vs. the $200 public rate. The course is also part of the NCGA Foundation’s Youth on Course program, where deserving youth can play for as low as $2.
Golf Course Renovation FAQ

Why are you renovating the facility?
The project is predicated on the need to replace the irrigation system that has reached its expected life of 25 years and is becoming very expensive to repair annually. The course has always had a problem with drainage and it makes sense to combine the two projects and consider other improvements during the closure period.

When will this begin?
The process to obtain permits has already started and could take anywhere from 12 to 24 months to complete. Once the renovation begins the course will close and then reopen one year later, weather permitting.

How long will the course be closed?
The holes on the clubhouse side of Lopez Road (Nos. 1-9 and 17 and 18) will remain open for the first several months and then close down once the renovations on the back nine are completed; at that time the entire course will be closed.

How is the Association subsidizing the renovation? Was it the reason for the dues increase?
No, the NCGA and Poppy Holding Inc. both have cash reserves that are being used and Poppy Holding has secured a loan.

Will member green fees increase once the course is reopened?
Our goal is to keep member rates as close as possible to the current rates while raising the guest and public fees.

Will tee time booking policies remain the same after the course reopens?
It is our goal to continue offering a 30-day advance booking window for NCGA members.

What will happen to the NCGA tournament play scheduled for Poppy Hills?
A portion of the events will move to Poppy Ridge and the remainder will move to local courses worthy of championship golf.

Will the practice facilities/restaurant be open during the renovation?
We would like to keep the practice facility and restaurant open during the first phase (3-5 months) of the renovation, but it will be necessary to close both at some point in the process.

Are there other courses where members can receive a discount during the renovation?
Yes, Poppy Ridge will remain open with the same member rates as will the more than 80 facilities throughout the region offering discounts and benefits through the NCGA Member Advantage.

Will the greens be redone and with what type of grass?
All greens will be replaced and redesigned and many of the complexes will gain additional square footage. The greens will change from Poa annua.

Will the yardage or par change?
The course will grow several hundred yards to more than 7,000 while par will drop from 72 to 71.

How much will the layout truly change?
The existing footprint will stay the same but 13 holes will be subtlety modified, while five holes will be significantly altered. The course will have a different feel with the removal of mounding from the fairways and severe doglegs will be lessened leaving a very natural course.

Will the renovated golf course still be a tough test of golf, or will it play easier?
It is our goal to maintain the “teeth” of the course, while also allowing golfers of all abilities to play the course. We currently offer four sets of tees.  In the proposed renovation, we will add a fifth set of tees for more playing options.  Mounding and pop-up bunkers will be replaced with soft rolling fairways and more naturally-contoured bunkering.

What will the renovated course look like?
We are looking to enhance our current course with a “Pine Valley” feel.  There will be less mounding, more traditional lines that are brought back to the tree line, subtle playable waste areas and soft natural grasses brought into areas that currently have dormant grass cover. New Jersey’s Pine Valley is one of the top layouts in the world and is known for its rustic, natural waste areas that unfold naturally.

What will a new irrigation system and sand capping provide?
Faster and firmer conditions via better management of water, superior drainage and improved conditions in the winter.

Will an increase in yardage increase the water used to irrigate?
No, because the change to a more natural course leaves fewer acres of turf that require irrigation. We will use less water on the course; Poppy Hills is proud to use only recycled water for irrigation.

Are you renovating other parts of the facility as well?
Yes, a full renovation of the clubhouse is planned including Porter’s Grill & Bar and the restrooms.

Why use Robert Trent Jones Jr. and not another designer?
Jones originally designed the layout and after months of discussion and brainstorming we feel confident that he is the best fit because of his knowledge of the property and proven track record.

Will the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am return to Poppy Hills once the renovation is complete?
While it would be nice to have the AT&T return one day, this project is about repairing the irrigation system and improving the course for NCGA members. Once the course is completed the layout will be worthy of championship golf for every level.

Why are you doing this now, in an unstable economy?
This is an investment and the economic situation allows us to save money on the project. Poppy Hills is the Association’s most important asset and we see this as a wonderful opportunity to make our members’ course one of the finest in the nation.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Will the yardage or par change?

The course will grow several hundred yards to more than 7,000 while par will drop from 72 to 71.

Several hundred yards?

[Matt_Cohn]

Will the yardage or par change?

The course will grow several hundred yards to more than 7,000 while par will drop from 72 to 71.

Several hundred yards?

Currently 6,857...so 200, maybe 300?

[Tim Leahy]

It seems to good to be true. I get the feeling that the NCGA is sprucing up the course to sell it!
Poppy Ridge is a dump and I hate it there, hopefully they don't sell Poppy Hills, but I could see them charging big bucks to play there to tourists. Look what they charge now for Spyglass!

[astavrides]

It seems to good to be true. I get the feeling that the NCGA is sprucing up the course to sell it!
Poppy Ridge is a dump and I hate it there, hopefully they don't sell Poppy Hills, but I could see them charging big bucks to play there to tourists. Look what they charge now for Spyglass!

'dump' seems like a bit of a stretch...

[Adam Clayman]

Tim, They don't charge that. The PB co. does. If you play as a guest of a Spyglass Hill Member, during the NCGA time slots, it's like $15. And when the course was under construction, during the NCGA tournament days, any NCGA member could play Spy for what they charge for Poppy. !0-15 years ago it $45, now it's $55. So, I believe your point is mis-placing the blame for $350 green fee.

[Jim Hoak]

I think this is positive.  Poppy Hills is not a great course, but it's not as bad as the buzz in the AT&T made it out to be.  It just gets severely hurt by comparison to its neighbors.
It has five par-5's--all of them reachable by the pros--so it created 6+ hour rounds as everyone waited for the greens to clear.  Getting rid of one of them would be a plus.  And re-thinking the  overly-slopped greens sounds to be positive.
I look forward to seeing the result.

[Tim Leahy]

Tim, They don't charge that. The PB co. does. If you play as a guest of a Spyglass Hill Member, during the NCGA time slots, it's like $15. And when the course was under construction, during the NCGA tournament days, any NCGA member could play Spy for what they charge for Poppy. !0-15 years ago it $45, now it's $55. So, I believe your point is mis-placing the blame for $350 green fee.

I am not sure what you mean by your answer, but if you are trying to tell me that I can play Spyglass before the twilight for $55 as an NCGA member you are not even close, unless you are speaking about tournament play after local qualifying. I had to buy a Duke's card just to play there for $175 a few years ago. What I am saying is if the NCGA sells Poppy Hills to a private company, the private company will be able to charge much higher rates than the NCGA gets from members and is almost always full.

[Adam Clayman]

Tim Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to a special situation at Spy, when they had the course under renovation (mostly drainage) There were, at that time, NCGA tournament days at Spyglass. Because of the work being done at Spy, they moved the tourneys to Poppy. That left Spy open for any NCGA member to play it for $45.

 The course is co-owned. The members of Spyglass Hill have tee times every day. These times are limited to an hour (I think) during the week and an hour and a half on weekends. If you were a guest of a Spyglass Hill member, your fee was $15. Again, this info is 10 years old from when I lived there. The co-ownership was scheduled to end in 2016, a fifty year deal. But, the terms have recently been re-negotiated to a date that is past 2016. Perhaps JVB can enlighten us all to the new end date of the co-ownership.

Granted it was a small exception, but an exception none the less.

[JohnV]

Adam,

There is no "co-ownership".  Spyglass is owned by the Pebble Beach Corp.  But, when it was built, the NCGA was given the rights to use it free for 30 days a year for 50 years (ending in 2016).  Two years ago there was a change in the agreement.  The NCGA gave up 10 days a year through 2016, but gets 10 days a year through 2024.  So, we gave up current days for future ones so that we can continue to use it for more years.

Up until this change, we "owned" the entire course for the day.  So, when we ran a double-tee morning start, we could let anyone use the course in the afternoon.  Staff, volunteers and others were allowed to play.  We would give times to supporters, pros who helped us etc.  There was no charge except for a cart.  We never charged people to play.  (I don't know how it worked during times like the work on Spyglass).

With the change in terms, that still happens but we only get to start players on the 10th tee while the resort can sell the 1st tee.  After everyone makes the turn, it is open season for our staff as it always was.

[JohnV]

Tim,

There are no plans to sell Poppy Hills.  I think we have turned down offers in the past.  I'm sure the only way we would ever consider it is if we could buy another course to replace it.

[Bob_Huntley]

Adam,

There is no "co-ownership".  Spyglass is owned by the Pebble Beach Corp.  But, when it was built, the NCGA was given the rights to use it free for 30 days a year for 50 years (ending in 2016).  Two years ago there was a change in the agreement.  The NCGA gave up 10 days a year through 2016, but gets 10 days a year through 2024.  So, we gave up current days for future ones so that we can continue to use it for more years.

Up until this change, we "owned" the entire course for the day.  So, when we ran a double-tee morning start, we could let anyone use the course in the afternoon.  Staff, volunteers and others were allowed to play.  We would give times to supporters, pros who helped us etc.  There was no charge except for a cart.  We never charged people to play.  (I don't know how it worked during times like the work on Spyglass).

With the change in terms, that still happens but we only get to start players on the 10th tee while the resort can sell the 1st tee.  After everyone makes the turn, it is open season for our staff as it always was.

[Bob_Huntley]

Oops, John is right about the NCGA and Spyglass but I believe wrong about the sole ownership, unless some new contract has been signed.

The land for Spyglass was provided by Sam Morse, the main man of the Pebble Beach Company in 1965 or thereabouts. Then the  construction was paid for by 300 Founder Members who paid $2000.00( or 2000 members who paid $3000.00)  each to build the course. Those Members had the rights to a block of times every day until the year 2016, when the Company would recover primary ownership.

During the Japanese real estate boom some years ago, the Members at Spyglass were supposedly made some mouthwatering offers to sell off their rights of play but were turned down en masse.

A good friend of mine was Bob Hanna, the long time keeper of the flame at NCGA and he wrote every check for the construction of the course and Club House.


Bob

[Kris Shreiner]

I believe that is still the case with membership of Spyglass BoB. Don't know if the members have any offer beyond 2016. The tee times blocked were 8:30-10:00a.m., Mon-Friday and 8:30-10:30 a.m., Sat. and Sunday. I think John was commenting on the NCGA arrangement relationship only, though I'd be surprised if he wasn't aware of the private members situation at the Glass.

Cheers

[Adam Clayman]

I suppose it really doesn't matter if it is co-owned or not, it has the same result, that tee times are available for the Membership side, and that it would become solely company property, at some point. My point to Tim was that access could be had for less than the retail, or Dukes Club rates.  And according to John, that's still available, in some cases, on some days. If you help out or are invited.  

The week I moved onto the peninsula, 6-5-1996 was the week they started doing some work. I believe it started with the major changes to #16. Edward and I had played Bayonet in the Morning, and because Edward's dis-like for claustrophobic tree lined ball busters, at lunchtime he asked if we could somehow not go back in the afternoon and play somewhere else. I picked up the phone and called Spyglass Hill and they informed me that the course was open for any NCGA member, for $45, for the next few weeks (Maybe a month or more I don't recall exactly). We high tailed it over there and played the entire course except for the 16th, which they made into a temp par 3, from the original tee to the landing area, maybe 205 yards long.

For the next month, or so, I had spread the word to my San Jose friends and they all came down to take advantage of the unbelievable deal. But, as time progressed, they ended up closing the entire back nine and we were forced to go around the front, twice. What a pity it was. boo hoo  

[Mike Benham]

Ok, so you want to design and build a golf course or renovate an existing one, the following document is the permitting document set for the now approved project at Poppy Hills. 

... only 7,200, or is it 3,600?, truckloads of sand ...



http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/planning/cca/pc/2012/01-25-12/PLN100655PC1.pdf

[David_Tepper]

Monterey Herald article: http://www.montereyherald.com/golf/ci_20117411/new-poppy-hills-be-done-2014

[Jon Spaulding]

Ok, so you want to design and build a golf course or renovate an existing one, the following document is the permitting document set for the now approved project at Poppy Hills. 

... only 7,200, or is it 3,600?, truckloads of sand ...

http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/planning/cca/pc/2012/01-25-12/PLN100655PC1.pdf

Remember, the party line is we give a "thumbs up" to people buying sand.....it's good for America, and more importantly.....it's good for me.

I wonder if some of the material will be used to create the Pine Valley "look" described in the article.

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