Rio Olympics 2016 course decision…

[Dan Herrmann]

Am I misreading the diagram - or do I see a course without distinct tee boxes?

Plus, look at #1, #7 and #18 - all sharing common ground - spectacular!

Ok - one more - Look at #A, #B, and #C over by the range - 3 hole area for practice/beginners?

[Adam_F_Collins]

Adam,
Remember, Gil once work for Tom back in the day...

Dan, I had forgotten that.

But cool that Gil would bring the idea of getting input from other architects - and Tom by name - publicly into the discussion during the press release. I have no idea if Tom or anyone else would like to have that conversation, but I thought it seemed thoughtful to want to get perspectives from other architects - in an effort to make this project be the best it could be.

Adam

[jeffwarne]

Adam,
Remember, Gil once work for Tom back in the day...

Dan, I had forgotten that.

But cool that Gil would bring the idea of getting input from other architects - and Tom by name - publicly into the discussion during the press release. I have no idea if Tom or anyone else would like to have that conversation, but I thought it seemed thoughtful to want to get perspectives from other architects - in an effort to make this project be the best it could be.

Adam

I'd say the tide is turning.

Now might be a good time to lock Hanse's, Doak's or Coore's sons or nephews into long term contracts

[Tom_Doak]

Some disappointed faces in my office, obviously.  

I had dinner with Gil in Rio in December, and told him then that if we couldn't get the job, I hoped he did.  My congratulations to him, and best wishes for the work that lies ahead to prove that the committee made the right choice.

P.S.  Thanks to all of those here who expressed their support for our bid.  A lot of good that was worth! 

[Jay Flemma]

Congrats, Gil!    Big last couple of months!!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tom,

Did you know about the selection ahead of time, or did you hear it on TV ?  They did a great job keeping the lid on.

[David Kelly]

Am I misreading the diagram - or do I see a course without distinct tee boxes?

Dan,
On a number of his courses he has used closely mowed transitional areas between green and tee with one green kind of flowing into the next tee box (Applebrook, Castle Stuart, Rustic Canyon, BGC).  I thought the same thing that you did re: the lack of tee boxes when looking at the routing so maybe he is going to use those closely mowed areas throughout the entire golf course.

[Sven Nilsen]

Looking at the proposed routing, a couple of things stand out:

1.  The lakes/ponds will be manmade, and serve as irrigation ponds.

2.  Seems like there's a bit of land to the north of the proposed course and south of the main road that was either off limits or not used for this routing.  

3.  The flow between greens and teeing areas looks fantastic.  Clearly designed as a walkers course.

4.  I wonder how the joint fairways and holes bordering on the water may impact spectator flow (for long term usage purposes this is a very minor concern).

5.  Looks like the proposed lengths range from 5118 to 7226, all playing to a par of 71.  

6.  5 par 3's, 4 par 5's.

Would love to see an overlay of the routing on a google maps image, if anyone has the skills.

[Jud_T]

It's pretty funny that I was getting 3-1 on the Tom & Gil combo because I thought it was primarily a bet on Tom with Gil as a longshot throw-in.  Better lucky than smart once again.  Does this signal a real turning point in GCA history?  Guess we can no longer refer to our little corner of the world as an inconsequential niche market for hardcore golf nerds...

[RJ_Daley]

Yes Sven, that is an interesting routing and it doesn't depict a considerable portion of the property between the main "Avenue de Americas" and the apparent north end of the golf course along #18.  Obviously they aren't taking out that substantial condo project in the NE corner.  I'd love to be the owner of that 'lounge' cantina right on the main drag, next to the proposed golf course.

You can go to google street view and run that route on the north side of the course, along the avenue.  Interesting large billboard for a RE company called Cyrela RE investors. One would imagine some similar high rise condos will go there along the avenue north of the course, and get a pretty penny. 

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=-23.000214,-43.404257&spn=0.00004,0.018411&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=-23.00021,-43.408208&panoid=SkkUEEK7nPrbP-Pd7r-gAg&cbp=12,142.71,,0,10.41

Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barra_da_Tijuca#History

 ...says this area name translates from Barra di Tujica to "swampy sandbank".   Maybe Gil will have his name associated with the 'Blue Monsters" of north and south America!  Good Luck Gil!!!   

[Jason Connor]

Shocked and pleased here.  Congrats to Gil.

I must say this has not only given me faith in GCA, but faith in the Olympic bureaucrats.  I just assume they're mainly corrupt and they'd just pick a big name!

Looks like a fine routing, shame I'm unlikely ever to play it.

Maybe Gil will design the 3rd course at Streamsong (near me).

[Dan Kelly]

Tom Doak --

Two requests:

1. If you have not done so already, would you please post your routing, so we can get a look at it?

2. Would you please address this question: How much of the selection process do you think was "political" -- not GeoPolitical, but lower-case political, as in interpersonal, bureaucratic "politics"?

Dan

[Sven Nilsen]

Does the site have much in the way of elevation change - any interesting features worth mentioning??

No and none.

[Howard Riefs]

According to AP golf writer Doug Ferguson via twitter:

Hanse said camera crew from GC followed him all morning, along with 7 other candidates waiting for the call. #overthetop #WAYoverthetop


Seriously? The Golf Channel turned the announcement into the NCAA selection show. Is that considered good TV? Just horrible.  

"So, Jack and Annika, you were reportedly the favorites. How do you feel right now..."


https://twitter.com/#!/dougferguson405/status/177462467511844864

[Jeff_Brauer]

Well, I bet they taped some "OH, Sh**!" from six of them, and maybe a "Hot Damn" from Gil.......except he doesn't swear much. 

As TD can attest, it is so dissapointing to put in so much work, and not get selected.  But, its part of the biz.

I sure wouldn't want the cameras on me as I watched on TV to see the announcement.  I still have to think Gil had some advance word, but who knows.   Usually the winners do.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Doak --

Two requests:

1. If you have not done so already, would you please post your routing, so we can get a look at it?

2. Would you please address this question: How much of the selection process do you think was "political" -- not GeoPolitical, but lower-case political, as in interpersonal, bureaucratic "politics"?

Dan

Dan:

1.  I haven't posted our routing for the course, and I won't.  And I'm not sure that I could, since technically Rio2016 owns the rights to all the designs, and the non-disclosure agreement remains in effect until after 2016.  Anyway, it wouldn't be right to distract from the winning entry.  Plus, I wouldn't want to give away all the design ideas we had for this project, and put them in the public domain.  One of the things we suggested was really unique, as silly as that sounds.

2.  There was surely a fair amount of interpersonal politics involved.  I think that some of the big names may have underestimated it, actually, assuming that their stature would carry the day.

3.  (Addressing some other rumors above.)  There was no camera from the Golf Channel here today, and I seriously doubt that they were following around any of the other finalists, either.  Did they tell Gil that to keep him on pins and needles?  I don't know, but like Jeff, I presumed that the winner would know well in advance, which is why I was prepared to not hear my name in the announcement.  Plus, I doubt Gil or anyone else could put out such a gracious press release so fast, if he really had no idea that the decision was coming.  The AP story yesterday that we were all invited to Rio for the announcement was not accurate, either.  We had heard nothing at all, on the record or off, after the press release that delayed the decision.

[Peter Pallotta]

I'm happy for the winning team, and disappointed for our friend.  I'm not any good at such things, so I can't tell anything from the draft routing (but thanks Kalen for posting); but I was struck that the "legacy" and "environment" elements were, judging from the news release, even more important/front of mind than I thought they'd be.  

Peter

[Howard Riefs]

  I still have to think Gil had some advance word, but who knows.   Usually the winners do.

Either that, or the selection committee asked each finalist to prepare an official statement "just in case"


http://www.hansegolfdesign.com/News.html

[Chris Johnston]

Tom: 

This may be one where you actually may be fortunate not to be the selectee.   Looks a bit like herding cats to me.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom: 

This may be one where you actually may be fortunate not to be the selectee.   Looks a bit like herding cats to me.

Chris:

That's silly.  It is a great opportunity for Gil.  We would have loved to build the course -- though the site is nothing like yours.

What you are right about is that there is a ton of work to be done from here forward.  A pretty plan is one thing, but building a great golf course takes a lot more work than that -- as Gil knows as well as anyone.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Making the short list of finalists is a great achievement already. Gary Player apparently sees it that way as well and put out a respectable statement:

http://garyplayer.com/news/news_detail/gary_player_congratulates_gil_hanse_on_being_awarded_the_golf_course_projec/

Ulrich

[Howard Riefs]

18 time major Champion Gary Player? This is his own website!

18 majors? Ah, yes, the Champions/Seniors tour:

*  Winner of nine Majors on the Regular PGA Tour, with a total of 44 top ten finishes, including five second place and three third place finishes
*  Winner of nine Majors on the Senior PGA Tour, with a total of 29 top ten finishes, including two second place and six third place finishes

http://garyplayer.com/legend/grand_slam_golfer/

[Dan Kelly]

1.  I haven't posted our routing for the course, and I won't.  And I'm not sure that I could, since technically Rio2016 owns the rights to all the designs, and the non-disclosure agreement remains in effect until after 2016.  Anyway, it wouldn't be right to distract from the winning entry.  Plus, I wouldn't want to give away all the design ideas we had for this project, and put them in the public domain.  One of the things we suggested was really unique, as silly as that sounds.

I presume that Rio2016 does not "own" the unique feature of your design.

I look forward to hearing about its (re)appearance, elsewhere.

Thanks for your answers.

[Brock Peyer]

This is big news.

[George_Bahto]

repeated from another thread:

Boy, I’m excited.

As most o you know I have worked on a number of restoration projects with Gil as well as a number of Master Plans, so I have intimate knowledge to his innovative thinking when it comes to course design and redesign.

For me, an ex-dry cleaner - hah, it was a wonderful experience and the time we spent together over the past 12-13 years was an experience I’ll never forget.

In 1999 Gil turned over to me a small project he was involved with, out on Long Island  while he was building his Tall Grass course. It led to a very interesting experience for me, something that never crossed my mind before; building a golf course .......... it developed into what is now Stonebridge, a muni out in Hauppauge, NY. - not much of a course but, to me as a total novice, to see your thoughts and visions “grow” out of the ground, and grow into a course people would play for many years was very exciting.

Gil had routed the course, but left the finals to me, touching up the tight routing (about 96-acres - phew) and what was most cool,  it was up to me to design the green surfaces and finally overseeing the construction of the course.

I met Gil a few years earlier while he was working on the Brookville course and also Morris County CC here in NJ. I had been in the midst of researching the Macdonald book and he asked me to take a look at the bunker shapes and angles.

Two very special projects together came later, the restoration of Essex County CC and, of course, Sleepy Hollow.

These may be “chump change” type jobs for most architects, but for me, at this point in my life, these were extraordinary, and very rewarding experiences. I love restorations.

Working and making decisions in the field with Gil during these and other projects demonstrated to me the genius of his design philosophies and creativeness and with him “allowing” my input on occasion, the entire experience was very satisfying.

Gilbert Hanse is one of my very good friends and to see him advance to these lofty levels is such a thrill for me.

But as many have said, this a huge boost for golf course architecture as we think of it. The usual star power (under circumstances such as this) has taken a back seat.

Congratulations, good friend