News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #150 on: March 05, 2012, 11:41:11 PM »
Mark,

Since you first mentioned the absence of fun on your first round at Ballyneal, I have been meaning to ask if you were keeping a medal score in that round.

Saw this in your last post:

Quote
(funnily enough, I did manage to shoot a very good score --74ish I think).

and I wonder if that was not part of you not enjoying that round?

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #151 on: March 06, 2012, 07:15:11 AM »
Mark:

My experience was a bit different  :o.

The wind during my first round at Ballyneal was blowing so hard that you could only hear someone who was yelling from about a foot away.  My caddy would have gone hoarse in about 2 holes if he had given me all of that information.

Why wasn't discovering the golf course fun?  I still don't quite get it.  When you walked up to 4 tee or got your first glimpse of 8 green...It wouldn't have mattered what the caddy said, I was fascinated.   

It sounds like you had a bad caddy experience but I think that a caddy could give that much information about all sorts of courses that I have played.  Certainly TOC (which you mention), Old Mac, Crystal Downs and Kingsley are examples of golf courses as complex as Ballyneal.  For example check out Tim Bert's thread on Kingsley...it takes pages and pages of discussion to break down those holes.    I find complexity to be immediately FUN.

I am glad that you've since had fun at Ballyneal -- it would be a huge shame otherwise.  Thanks for the discussion.

Bart

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #152 on: March 06, 2012, 08:34:14 AM »
Mark,  I was in love with the place from the first moment I stepped on the property.  I loved my first, second,...and every round since. 


That's exactly how I feel about it.

However, I have yet to find one golf course that doesn't have at least one feature I don't care for. WIth Ballyneal, it's the 12th green. Tee-to-green is great, and I love the angle of the green such that if you hit your tee shot right, you are then hitting to the shallow part of the green. I don't even mind that, when hitting from that angle (as I did about 4 times out of my 5 rounds), my short iron shot bounced hard to the back of the green. I simply found the green itself to be too much for me...too undulating. Maybe it just had my number, but I 3-putted that green 3 out of 5 times, didn't get up-and-down from behind the green once, and missed the green short-right once. Made bogey all 5 times.

I don't know what to say other than I thought it was too undulating. Maybe I'm a crappy putter (though I don't think I am), or like I said maybe it just had my number. I realize a short hole should be defended well at the green...#12 certainly is. I don't know...#12 and I just got off to a rocky start, and never learned to love each other.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #153 on: March 06, 2012, 11:04:21 AM »
Mark,  I was in love with the place from the first moment I stepped on the property.  I loved my first, second,...and every round since. 


That's exactly how I feel about it.

However, I have yet to find one golf course that doesn't have at least one feature I don't care for. WIth Ballyneal, it's the 12th green. Tee-to-green is great, and I love the angle of the green such that if you hit your tee shot right, you are then hitting to the shallow part of the green. I don't even mind that, when hitting from that angle (as I did about 4 times out of my 5 rounds), my short iron shot bounced hard to the back of the green. I simply found the green itself to be too much for me...too undulating. Maybe it just had my number, but I 3-putted that green 3 out of 5 times, didn't get up-and-down from behind the green once, and missed the green short-right once. Made bogey all 5 times.

I don't know what to say other than I thought it was too undulating. Maybe I'm a crappy putter (though I don't think I am), or like I said maybe it just had my number. I realize a short hole should be defended well at the green...#12 certainly is. I don't know...#12 and I just got off to a rocky start, and never learned to love each other.

David:

I'm just curious:  in your five rounds, how many hole locations did you see?  Which ones?  I ask because I know they don't change the hole locations very often out there.

It is a difficult green for sure, but much more so when the flag is on the right half and you aren't hitting it on the right half.  If the flag is on the left half, and you miss right, it can also be a difficult-to-impossible two-putt, but that's a really bad miss if you understand the green and the hole location -- all you have to do in that case is hit it in the bowl on the left, short or medium or long, and it's a pretty easy two-putt.

So many people make their judgments based on their own limited playing experience ... I suppose it's inevitable, but it's sad.  Of all the holes to not like, you picked what I think is one of the very best holes on the course.  The fact that a 380-yard hole is "in your head" is a good sign, to me.

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #154 on: March 06, 2012, 02:04:06 PM »

David:

I'm just curious:  in your five rounds, how many hole locations did you see?  Which ones?  I ask because I know they don't change the hole locations very often out there.

It is a difficult green for sure, but much more so when the flag is on the right half and you aren't hitting it on the right half.  If the flag is on the left half, and you miss right, it can also be a difficult-to-impossible two-putt, but that's a really bad miss if you understand the green and the hole location -- all you have to do in that case is hit it in the bowl on the left, short or medium or long, and it's a pretty easy two-putt.

So many people make their judgments based on their own limited playing experience ... I suppose it's inevitable, but it's sad.  Of all the holes to not like, you picked what I think is one of the very best holes on the course.  The fact that a 380-yard hole is "in your head" is a good sign, to me.

Tom,

I saw two hole locations, and both were on the right half. And like I said, I could not keep my short irons on the right half, although I admit I also was comng in from the right side 4 out of 5 times. Three times I ended up in the back left bowl, once it bounced over the green, and once when I tried to get too cute it ended up in the front bunker. So, my only experience for the most part is trying to two-putt from the back left to a right-side hole location.

Perhaps the conditions contributed as well. I hit the ball pretty far, but because the wind was always into us on the tee I did not think I could hit driver and pass the trouble on the left, which obviously would give me the best angle to attack the green. I decided to hit driver and play to the right side of the fairway...I kept thinking that even though I would have a bad angle, I would be hitting such a short iron I could hold the right side of the green. And every time, I couldn't. My stubbornness may have played a factor :-[

Like I said earlier, #12 and I never learned to love each other. Perhaps we need to re-introduce ourselves!

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #155 on: March 06, 2012, 02:21:44 PM »

So many people make their judgments based on their own limited playing experience ...  



It could be worse, they could make their judgments based on no playing experience ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jim Tang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #156 on: March 06, 2012, 09:15:44 PM »
I think the 12th is one of the most unique holes, anywhere.  I've said it before, I think that may be the toughest drive on the course.  When the flag is at the bottom of the bowl, front right, the approach is one of the most fun on the course.

That hole is in my head, too.  I haven't played it well in the 25 rounds or so I have on Ballyneal.  Figureing out how to best play that hole, and that course in general, is a lot of the charm that is Ballyneal.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #157 on: March 06, 2012, 09:23:46 PM »
Jim:

Here's a hint on #12 ... it's more important to keep the tee shot left on #12, than it is to hit it long.

Indeed, the further down the fairway you go, the worse the angle gets to the upper hole locations.  That's the coolest thing about short par-4's ... the angle of attack gets more severe for the longer hitter.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Ballyneal Criticism
« Reply #158 on: March 06, 2012, 09:53:46 PM »
The 12th is very simple for me.  I cut the green in half length-wise.  If the pin is left of that, I bang driver and hope I don't fade it too much.  If the pin is right of center, I bang the driver hope I don't fade it too much.   :)

More than any hole on the golf course, 12 is about how nutsy you want to get with your second.  But my belief is that a par is possible on that hole from just about anywhere, if you hit your second in the correct bowl of the three with the shortest club you can.