[Bill McKinley]

I had the unbelievalbe pinch myself pleasure of playing Riviera CC and Los Angeles CC (North) last Wednesday.  Riv in the morning, followed by LA North in the afternoon.  What a treat!!

I'll set the stage... The weather was good but not great, especially when we're talking about California.  50 and clear in the morning and got up to about 60 and the clouds rolled in the afternoon.  Not much wind at Riv but it got a little blustery at times at LA.  But no rain and 60 degrees and sun feels pretty good for this Ohio boy in February!

1st up, Riviera.  10 days after the dramatic fiinish to the Northern Trust Open, the golf course was in terrific shape.  They said that they slowed down the greens a touch, but I didn't notice.  Great surfaces with ample runout.  I have read a lot about Riviera and seen it on TV for many years so I was excited to see it in person.  It was safe to say, the Riv did not disappoint.  The 1st 10 holes were so good.  I could not find a weak one in the bunch!! #11 was probably the weakest hole on the course in my opinion, but the barranca that cut across the fairway did add some strategy to it.  #16 was the biggest surpise hole of the day.  I loved 3,4,5,6,9,10 but I kind of knew what was coming there.  16 was such a need little par 3 tucked into the sycamores with beautiful Thomas bunkering around it.
 
As I was walking up 17 & 18 I was sad that my round was coming to an end, because the Riv is a special place, but at the same time I was very pumped for LACC...

[Michael George]

Bill - congrats on what sounds like a great day.  I will be interested in which course you enjoyed more.

Also, are you making it to any other courses on the trip?

You are missing more snow here in northeast Ohio.  E-mail me when you get back and let's try and plan a GCA dinner for northeastern Ohio - which I let slip over the last month.

[Jud_T]

How'd the Kikuyu treat you?

[Bill McKinley]

We pulled in to LACC off the bustling Wilshire Blvd and made our way to the lockerroom.  After we checked in and got our caddie we were off down the 1st fairway.  #1 is a fairly easy Par 5 that plays downhill and downwind.  The bunkering was magnificent and even though LA North is also designed by George C. Thomas, it was very different than Riviera.  After walking off the 1st hole, my friend and I looked at each other and said "This place is awesome"

I'm not going to go hole by hole here, but #2 was a treat as well.  Long par 4, 484, that has an alternate green that plays as a par 5.  The 2nd shot is where the fun begins as there is a barranca cut right in front of the green making for a brutally difficult approach from mostly likely around 200 yards.

There are 5 par 3s at LA North (6 if you count lil 17) and 4 is a really cool downhill number that plays about 195 from the back tees.  #6 is where LACC went from great to something better than great for me.  A short par 4.  335 from the tips but downhill.  The tee shot is blind to a fairway well below you and you can hit anything from a 4 iron to a driver on different lines to choose what option you want to take.  The green is a sliver deep cut into a hillside but is probably about 30 yards wide.  Such a cool and unique hole that uses the terrain extremely well.

7 is a beauty of a long par 3 and 8 is wonderful as well.  A great risk reward par 5 that if you want to go at it in 2, you'll have to draw it into the green off a fade lie.  And the bunkering around the green looks like something out of Bandon Trails.

#11 has been talked about a lot and for very good reason.  A stunning par 3 that stretches out to 244 yards but plays significantly shorter due to the downhill shot and the fact that you want to land it short and left of the green.  The LA skyline in the background too makes this hole even cooler.

The reality is that pretty much every hole at LACC is strong IMO, but we can talk about them if somebody wants to, but to keep the post going, I loved the finish of 16-18.  All good par 4s that play different than the next.  17 was super cool, and the little 17 green off to the right was neat too.  Suffice it to say I had a blast playing LA North and can't think of very many courses on the planet that would be better than this gem!

[Bill McKinley]

How'd the Kikuyu treat you?

Jud,

I heard a lot about the Kikuyu before I went and honestly I can see what people are talking about.  If you hit a long shot into the green and it lands short of the green, it will stick and most likely end up short.  But if that shot hits on the front of the green, then it will release a lot.  Very tough to tell what's going to happen.  If you're greenside in the rough, it can get in your head as to how to play the shot, but if you just stay aggressive, it's probably fine.

[Bruce Wellmon]

There was a statement in a beer commercial years ago that is appropriate after 36 hole of awesomeness.
"Boys it don't get no better than this."
Congrats.

[jkinney]

Which course would you play again if you could only play one ?

[Terry Lavin]

I've played both courses and I really like each of them, but if given the choice of which one I'd prefer to play everyday, I would lean toward LACC.  I find the terrain and routing more interesting.  I also think that the course is visually a little more dramatic.  Having said that, there's nothing wrong with Riviera, we're splitting hairs here.  They are each awesome.

[Bill McKinley]

Which course would you play again if you could only play one ?

I agree with Terry.  Nothing wrong with Riviera at all, but given the choice I would take LACC for sure.

[Bill McKinley]

Here's an example of the differences in the bunkering

LACC - #8


Riviera - #3

[Carl Nichols]

Which course would you play again if you could only play one ?

I agree with Terry.  Nothing wrong with Riviera at all, but given the choice I would take LACC for sure.

Is your answer the same if the question is where would you rather be a member? 

[Bill McKinley]

Which course would you play again if you could only play one ?

I agree with Terry.  Nothing wrong with Riviera at all, but given the choice I would take LACC for sure.

Is your answer the same if the question is where would you rather be a member? 

I think so.  Riv felt busier to me and a little more corporate.  LACC seemed laid back and just about golf.

[Joel_Stewart]

I would rather play and be a member at LACC.

Personally I thing the par 3s and par 5s are better at LACC.  I would rate the par 4s as even.  Conditioning is also even.

[Steve Lapper]

Bill,

   Congrats on a day I've enjoyed several times and remains one of my favorite 36s anywhere.

   Personally, I'd much prefer to both play LACC and be a member there. I really enjoy Riviera, but find LACC considerable more pleasurable.

  The club has a much more laid back vibe, lesser playing traffic, and a more refined "club-like" feel. Both have great facilities yet LACC enjoys the lack of distraction by celebrities and their synchophantic friends. Gil & Jim's recent renovation qualifies as the best restoration I've ever seen. In fact, I believe it belongs in the US Top 12. I guess I'm a little biased.

  Lastly, I'd agree with Joel's breakdown of holes.

[Bill_McBride]

The drawings of the LACC holes in Geoff's books are just awesome, with the holes playing back and forth across and flirting with the sandy washes.   It's as cool as Mackenzie's back nine barrancas at Pasatiempo or the creeks that affect  4707 W. Pinnacle Peak Rd.   Glendale, AZ 85310lay on holes 3-14 at the Valley Club of Montecito.

Are those washes or arroyos still sand-bottomed, or do they now have grass bottoms like Riviera?   

[Ryan Kelly]

Bill, I had the same fortunate experience as you in January.  I also agree with your and Terry's observations.  Couple other interesting non-architecture notes.  I found it interesting that you had get tokens for range balls in the pro shop at Riv.  You then put your basket under the ball machine and out come the balls like at a muni.  Didn't find this to be a bad thing, just not something you see everyday at a top tier club.  I found it interesting at LACC that if you are in any way tied to the entertainment industry, they don't want you as a member.  The course was too crowded to play Lil 17 the day I was there, unfortunately.  Did you get to play it?

[Bill McKinley]

Bill, I had the same fortunate experience as you in January.  I also agree with your and Terry's observations.  Couple other interesting non-architecture notes.  I found it interesting that you had get tokens for range balls in the pro shop at Riv.  You then put your basket under the ball machine and out come the balls like at a muni.  Didn't find this to be a bad thing, just not something you see everyday at a top tier club.  I found it interesting at LACC that if you are in any way tied to the entertainment industry, they don't want you as a member.  The course was too crowded to play Lil 17 the day I was there, unfortunately.  Did you get to play it?

Ryan,

Completely agree on the range token thing at Riv.  A guy in a coat and tie usually doesn't hand you a range token!  Again, not a bad thing just caught me by surprise.  We hit shots into lil 17 then left our balls there.  But, our caddie went down and got the balls anyway and gave them back to us, he was the man! 

[Bill McKinley]

Bill McBride,

The wash areas are a mix of grass and sand, depending on which one.

Here is more of a sandy area short of #2


same with this one on #6

[Mark Saltzman]

Bill, it looks and sounds like you had a wonderful day. I love hearing about great experiences. Thank you for sharing!

[Brad Isaacs]

Was down inLA just before the tournament.  My favorite to play:

1) LACC north
2) Riviera
3) Bel-Air

The one that  seemed the most friendly and easiest going membership was Bel-Air.  Riviera was the most corporate. LACC was very traditional.

I would choose  LA or Bel-Air but would not turn down a membership to any of them.

The 15 th at LACC North, short par three??? Just missed the birdie put but seems a little out of place. Opinions?

[J_ Crisham]

I also had the good fortune t play these fine clubs about 5 weeks ago. I would split them Riviera 6 to LACC 4 out of 10 rounds. Just a personal preference. My favorite overall was The Valley Club- some of the most interesting green complexes you will see anywhere. Also a very low key club,they know what they have and are not trying to be something else. This would be my choice for the club to grow old at.

[Bill McKinley]

Brad,

Re: 15th at LACC.  I like the idea of having a short par 3 in the mix, but the placement does seem a little odd.  The green has a good deal of character though.  That little tongue in the front would be a wicked hole location, even if it was only about 115 to 120.  Also the big mound or "bump" in the middle of the green is said to be where Thomas thought of putting a tiny bunker in the green, ie the 6th at Riv. But early photos show that it never materialized.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill McBride,

The wash areas are a mix of grass and sand, depending on which one.

Here is more of a sandy area short of #2


same with this one on #6

Thanks.  It would be better all sand but still a world better than the kikuyu-clad bottoms at Riviera.

[Niall Hay]

Was down inLA just before the tournament.  My favorite to play:

1) LACC north
2) Riviera
3) Bel-Air

The one that  seemed the most friendly and easiest going membership was Bel-Air.  Riviera was the most corporate. LACC was very traditional.

I would choose  LA or Bel-Air but would not turn down a membership to any of them.

The 15 th at LACC North, short par three??? Just missed the birdie put but seems a little out of place. Opinions?

How does Bel-Air compare to the other 2 as a golf course? Design? Condition? Layout/terrain?

[jkinney]

Brad,

Re: 15th at LACC.  I like the idea of having a short par 3 in the mix, but the placement does seem a little odd.  The green has a good deal of character though.  That little tongue in the front would be a wicked hole location, even if it was only about 115 to 120.  Also the big mound or "bump" in the middle of the green is said to be where Thomas thought of putting a tiny bunker in the green, ie the 6th at Riv. But early photos show that it never materialized.

The 15th exists and is where it is because 1) almost all great layouts have an intriguing short par three and 2) the routing of holes one and two of the south course in combination with the location of the practice field made that the perfect spot for a reversal of direction back to the 16th tee and the start of the three great and long par four finishing holes.

With its restoration, 15 has become quite difficult, especially when the hole is cut front right.

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