Why isn't Eastward Ho! .... ???

[Frank Sullivan]

More highly regarded?

What rating would you give it on the Doak Scale?

Granted, I have not played it...so I am asking, for those who have played it, why does it fly under the proverbial radar?

From the pictures (from the club website) and according to people I know who have played it, it "looks" like a Doak 8 or even 9....am I completely off base?

It looks EPIC from the pictures, so I can only imagine what it looks like in person.  As I look at pictures of Shinny, Merion, Fisher's...Eastward Ho!  "looks "  like it should be in the same company, although clearly it is not in terms of rankings. 

I am not simply looking for the negatives, but more to give it praise.  I am playing Shinny and Eastward Ho! next summer, so maybe I can answer this question with ACTUAL knowledge ..... But, Eastward Ho! sure seems like it competes with many of the best...maybe not Augusta, Shinny, NGLA, Cypress, Oakmont, Sand Hills & Pac Dunes....but is sure seems like it would be in the next grouping.

Thoughts??? Am I insane?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Frank,

It is "highly regarded" here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/eastward-ho/


Plus, there are many threads on Fowler's work where this course has been mentioned.

[Ronald Montesano]

I second Esteban's acclimation. Concerning wider regard, the usual list of culprits is to blame:

-no television/major tournament exposure;
-private club, so no public access;
-no champion among the touring professionals to tout its worth/merits;
-general malaise among the golfing public concerning architecture.

[Rich Goodale]

Frank

There are several hundred courses in the world which can be made to "look" like they are Doak 8+'s depending on the skill of the photographer and/or the raconteur.  Please let us know your opinion (and the context within which this opinion is formulated) after you play Eastward Ho! and not before.  More importantly, enjoy!

Rich

[Sean_A]

Frank

Your sanity is for a qualified quack to determine should your insurance cover mental health issues.  I would add Eastward Ho! to my dream list simply because Fowler designed it.  I don't need to know anything more except for the names of willing members to take me round.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I always really liked the look of this course too. From photos and Fowler alone, it would be high on my wish list.

Welcome back, Rich.

[Tom_Doak]

Eastward Ho! is a beautiful golf course.  It's not rated more highly (as of yet) because:

1.  It was only a few years ago that they cleared out a bunch of trees and opened up the views to the water -- before that, it was under the radar;

2.  It's only 6300 yards from the tips, which costs it a lot of points in the GOLF DIGEST panelist view of the world; and

3.  It's pretty severe.  There are numerous holes where if you don't clear a ridge in the fairway or don't get to the front of the green, the ball is liable to roll thirty yards backwards down a steep hill -- a design feature that isn't universally loved.

I only had the chance to walk the course when I was there three years ago.  I'd love to go back and play it sometime.  I think it would rate a 7 or an 8 on the Doak scale, but there are other courses I've rated that highly which are not ranked in the top 100, either.  The main thing they have in common is that most of them are not so long.  There's a definite bias against courses that are under 6500 yards.

[Pete Blaisdell]

Simply put, there is no more enjoyable course to play in New England than Eastward Ho. It has been underrated forever. I've been fortunate to have played there on two occasions and having viewed the great photos that have been posted, it is paramount to make the effort to get back down to the Cape for another go. It's a fabulous walk, great views and don't forget to bring your short game. It's a top 15 in New England and deserves more respect than it gets.Just a pure joy to play. You will not be disappointed.

[Anthony Butler]

I would concur with both Tom and Pete's comments... the only thing I would add is that even though it plays a very long 6300 yards, there are a couple of weak-ish holes on the back nine... 13 and 16 come to mind. The front nine is superb though... Overall, if I had just 10 rounds to play the rest of my life in Massachusetts, Eastward Ho would get at least 2 of them...  I'd go EH 2 (1 calm, 1 windy), Kittansett 1, Boston Golf Club 2, Turner Hill 1, Winchester 1, Essex CC 1, Charles River 1, TCC 1.

[Bill_McBride]

Mike Sweeney speaks very highly of it.  He posted a couple of pictures of that cool dogleg right down by the water.  Looks like fun!

[Anthony Gray]

  Looks like fun. Glad to see a course that doesn't put a premium on length.

  Anthony

[Jud_T]

The interesting thing to me is that it looks like a course that an average hack like me could really enjoy yet I know some very good players whose opinion I respect that love the place.

Anthony-  Not one go at Old Sandwich?

[Howard Riefs]

Anthony-  Not one go at Old Sandwich?

... or The Country Club and Myopia.

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony-  Not one go at Old Sandwich?

... or The Country Club and Myopia.

I haven't played at either course yet... my wife used to ride horses at Myopia, and I would drive up to watch her with my clubs in the trunk, hoping that John Updike might cast his eyes around the car park and ask if I had any plans for the next few hours... no such luck. Since the wife gave up the ponies and Updike's no longer with us, my chances of playing there seem to be rapidly disappearing.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

On a "Fun to Play" rating scale Eastward Ho ranks near the very top.

The front nine in particular is a rollicking roller coaster ride. Similar to Fisher's Island where the views, interesting holes and the salty breeze transport the golfer.

I found the tiered green complex on the sixth a particular highlight. I presume the flag is always on the lower tier there as it tempts a short approach will roll back down a steep hill while a safer approach to the upper tier faces a daunting downhill putt with prospects to continue off the green and down the aforementioned hill faced on the approach. Perhaps not the fairest set up as Tom Doak mentioned yet pretty cool in my book.

I can think of many, many fun to play courses that the raters overlook. Perhaps a topic for another thread?

[Bill Crane]

I agree with my friend Malcolm that there are few courses as fun or beautiful as E Ho.  It's been a privilege to get to know, as I have been fortunate enough to play over a dozen rounds there.

The only criticism that can be leveled against the course are some of the severe sidehill lies that you can get on many holes.  The greens are small and many do have sharp slopes right off the fringes.   Wind is nearly always a factor and can really be severe at times, hitting the small greens from sidehill lies is a real challenge.

You can see either Pleasant Bay or Crows pond or the Atlantic from every hole on the course.  It has a different feel than any other course I have ever played, except for the weaker holes on the back mentioned earlier.  Quintessential Cape Cod golf.   

I have not played there for 3/4 years and I am struck by how many trees have been removed.  Probably increases the effect of the wind.

I am partial to Wm Flynn's layout at Kittansett, which is also beautiful and a better overall test of golf.  Fall is awesome in the area and a trip to the Cape to play both twice is heavenly.  Stop by the authentic links nine - Highland Light in Truro too and get a taste of true firm and fast.

[George Freeman]

I've always had a crush on this course.  The pictures posted by Frank are awesome and the most complete set I have seen of the course.  The terrain just looks so good!  The course, to me, looks like a hybrid of so many great courses (Shinnecock, Fishers Island, Crystal Downs/Kingsley Club, etc.).

It just looks phenomenal...

[cary lichtenstein]

Fun, fun, fun to play...I loved it. Definitely an 8. Quirky in the best possible way

[Tim Martin]

I agree with my friend Malcolm that there are few courses as fun or beautiful as E Ho.  It's been a privilege to get to know, as I have been fortunate enough to play over a dozen rounds there.

The only criticism that can be leveled against the course are some of the severe sidehill lies that you can get on many holes.  The greens are small and many do have sharp slopes right off the fringes.   Wind is nearly always a factor and can really be severe at times, hitting the small greens from sidehill lies is a real challenge.

You can see either Pleasant Bay or Crows pond or the Atlantic from every hole on the course.  It has a different feel than any other course I have ever played, except for the weaker holes on the back mentioned earlier.  Quintessential Cape Cod golf.  

I have not played there for 3/4 years and I am struck by how many trees have been removed.  Probably increases the effect of the wind.

I am partial to Wm Flynn's layout at Kittansett, which is also beautiful and a better overall test of golf.  Fall is awesome in the area and a trip to the Cape to play both twice is heavenly.  Stop by the authentic links nine - Highland Light in Truro too and get a taste of true firm and fast.

I love EH but have to agree with Bill that Kittansett is the better overall test.Given 10 plays I would split 7/3 in favor of Kittansett. That said the land that encompasses EH which is basically at sea level is a twisting,heaving,rolling,undulating 6300 yards of pure wonder. Great fun!

[Bob_Huntley]

I agree with my friend Malcolm that there are few courses as fun or beautiful as E Ho.  It's been a privilege to get to know, as I have been fortunate enough to play over a dozen rounds there.

The only criticism that can be leveled against the course are some of the severe sidehill lies that you can get on many holes.  The greens are small and many do have sharp slopes right off the fringes.   Wind is nearly always a factor and can really be severe at times, hitting the small greens from sidehill lies is a real challenge.

You can see either Pleasant Bay or Crows pond or the Atlantic from every hole on the course.  It has a different feel than any other course I have ever played, except for the weaker holes on the back mentioned earlier.  Quintessential Cape Cod golf.   

I have not played there for 3/4 years and I am struck by how many trees have been removed.  Probably increases the effect of the wind.

I am partial to Wm Flynn's layout at Kittansett, which is also beautiful and a better overall test of golf.  Fall is awesome in the area and a trip to the Cape to play both twice is heavenly.  Stop by the authentic links nine - Highland Light in Truro too and get a taste of true firm and fast.

[Bob_Huntley]

I agree with my friend Malcolm that there are few courses as fun or beautiful as E Ho.  It's been a privilege to get to know, as I have been fortunate enough to play over a dozen rounds there.

The only criticism that can be leveled against the course are some of the severe sidehill lies that you can get on many holes.  The greens are small and many do have sharp slopes right off the fringes.   Wind is nearly always a factor and can really be severe at times, hitting the small greens from sidehill lies is a real challenge.

You can see either Pleasant Bay or Crows pond or the Atlantic from every hole on the course.  It has a different feel than any other course I have ever played, except for the weaker holes on the back mentioned earlier.  Quintessential Cape Cod golf.   

I have not played there for 3/4 years and I am struck by how many trees have been removed.  Probably increases the effect of the wind.

I am partial to Wm Flynn's layout at Kittansett, which is also beautiful and a better overall test of golf.  Fall is awesome in the area and a trip to the Cape to play both twice is heavenly.  Stop by the authentic links nine - Highland Light in Truro too and get a taste of true firm and fast.

Bill,

You have described Eastwood Ho much better than I could. I am surprised at the difference in the look of the course with the trees removed.
There have been a couple of courses that gave me a sense of joie de vivre and a feeling that everything was right with the world; Eastwood Ho was one and Fishers Island the other. These two courses were a feast; Highland was the post prandial brandy.

Bob


Highland was

[Bill Shotzbarger]

It's an amazing course. Definitely in my top 3. I've never played TCC, Myopia, Essex County, so I can't really compare it to its Bay State peers....

These pics were taken in June 2007. In the 3rd pic you can see one of the slopes Tom Doak mentioned; this time at the par 5 11th.

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony-  Not one go at Old Sandwich?

... or The Country Club and Myopia.

TCC + Squirrel = The Country Club, according to the shirt I won at the member/guest.

[Mark McKeever]

I really don't understand why EHCC is not more highly regarded.  It's incredibly fun and sits on some of the best waterfront terrain I have ever seen.  It has land movement that makes Yale jealous, which says a lot.  I was blown away when I played it last year and it will take something huge for me to not make it back up again in 2012.  Randy Van Sickle was a great host and I can't wait to do it again.  Here's to hoping we get a good group of GCA guys out there again!
 

I bumped my comparison thread to give people an idea of my thoughts putting Eastward Ho! toe to toe against some other heavyweights in the area. 

Mark

[Mark Steffey]

It's an amazing course. Definitely in my top 3. I've never played TCC, Myopia, Essex County, so I can't really compare it to its Bay State peers....

i would play essex any day over tcc.  i think the course you play (members) has a number of weak-to-middling holes (2,4,6,10,12).  3 is great.  7 is an outstanding redan.  8 is great.  9 i like (though this is pulled from the open course).  11 is a very good par 5.  then from stockton on is a wonderful finish (13-18). 
while the three pulled from the primrose are good holes, they come with caveats.  the first is a combination hole (par 4, but you play the par 3 green behind it), a par 5 played as a 4, then the downhill par 4.

essex is just solid.  sure, #5 is a short par 5 and #6 has lost its strategy with technology (don't bother with the fairway to the left, just bang it toward the green or rightside bunker).  but from there onward it is a wonder.  17 seems out of place hiking up the hill, but you need to do that to get to the tee for 18.

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